Wall charger installation at home - suggestions and recommendations? ⚡️⚡️

ajdelange

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Revised photo to show the 30a 220v receptacle that I installed.
OK, I see. The right angle part is kind of shadowy and I had to look carefully to see it. Old eyes here.

 

TheIglu

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Installed my charger yesterday/today.

About 50' total run of 6/3 MC. Used a right angle connector to get into the panel and a straight one to get into the charger, with "red devil" bushings. Anchored to the wall/etc every 32", plus within 12" of each termination point.

60amp dual pole Eaton BR style breakers are getting hard to find. Thought I was a Cutler Hammer panel, but that's not CH. I was also going to put in a NEMA 14-50 outlet 3' from my panel, but 50amp dual pole BR type breakers are unobtanium right now.

Charger is ready to go for truck delivery tomorrow. Paired to phone fine, but WiFi was a battle. Had to tell my router to fire up a dedicated 2.4Ghz SSID. Using normal dual band single SSID wouldn't work, even with band steering disabled. It didn't care about capital letters.

I wish there was a way to tell the charger to check for firmware updates now that it's online.

Lessons learned:

-Use a dedicated 2.4Ghz SSID
-Bring a spare breaker with you to buy a new one (CH is not BR, der)
-Don't leave the little bag of hardware/Torx T20 security bit in the box at work 75 miles away, or you'll need to do an extra commute to be able to complete the install before your truck arrives tomorrow.
-6/3 MC used 3/4" industry standard connectors, readily available at your big box store.
-Account for limited 6/3 MC bend radius on your installs, if you try to bend it too much, it'll break the conduit chaining.
 

CGM55082

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Not that I can see.

The things I'd check with No. 4 are:
1)Is no 4 NB-B more expensive that No. 6 THHN?
2)It's going to be harder to pull and wire
3)The EVSE lugs may not be big enough to accept No. 4
Last week I installed the Rivian Wall Charger with 6/3 NM-B. It's only about a five-foot-long run but after reading here, I replaced the NM-B today with 6/2 MC. Probably doesn't make a bit of difference in the real world given my application, but gives me peace of mind knowing it's now to code.

Thanks to ajdelange and others for sharing their knowledge and helping neophytes like me make better decisions.
 

IRun

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90 °F is only 32 °C and the breaker is rated 75 °C so you are in good shape. The 50A breaker feeding the 14-50 would handle 5/6 the amount of current as the 60A breaker and so, ceteris paribus, would dissipate 70% as much heat.

To be absolutely ceratain all is kosher examine the suspect breaker with an I/R camera. If the stabs or wire connection appear hotter than those on similar breakers in the panel you may have something to worry about, Unlikely though.
Charged earlier and although my garage was around 90, the breaker got up to about 125 after about 30 min of charging. Charging cable and conduit were both noticeably warm. Going to take the panel cover off and check temps of the connections tomorrow. Paranoid I got a bad breaker, didn't tighten connections fully or failed to completely ream conduit and caught a snag.
 

ajdelange

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Charged earlier and although my garage was around 90, the breaker got up to about 125 after about 30 min of charging. Charging cable and conduit were both noticeably warm. Going to take the panel cover off and check temps of the connections tomorrow.
One twenty five F is 52 °C, your breaker is rated 75 °C and the insulation on your wire 90 °C so technically you are within limits but I applaud your determination to check the situation out.

When pulling 48 A expect the charging cable to feel warm.
 


nc10

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Has anybody had experience installing a wall charger at home? How was the experience? Is it worthwhile?
My charger installation was finished yesterday, last step, the power company put in a separate meter so I could get lower EV rates off hours.

Wanted to mention I had problems connecting to my wifi. Have a netgear orbi mesh router. My SSID is two words, with a space in between. Apparently this is a problem, the charger would not connect. I have connected well over 100 items to the wifi at times, smart plugs, switches, bulbs, tv's, game systems, weather station, security cameras, ipads, phones, laptops and desktops, a refrigerator, garage door opener, thermostat, the R1T itself, apple TV, doorbells, holiday lights, that all conneccted ok. (Not sure I want to live through needing to buy a new router......)

I added a guest SSID to my router with a 1 word SSID with no space in the name. This connected to the charger 1st time without problem The charger worked about expected, appear to supply 69 kwhrs in 8 hours. I used the R1T to schedule charging between 10pm and 6 am.
 

Acoustic71

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Being a DIY puts you at additional risk. If an electrician screws it up you could ultimately sue him. If you DIY there is no one.

When checking with the county see if pulling an additional circuit requires a permit and inspection (it does where I live). If it does be sure to pull the permit and call for the inspection. Do that and you are covered. The worst that can happen is that the inspector says NM-B is a no-no and make you replace it with the proper wire after which he will presumably pass it. This way you have the permit and the inspection on record and the insurance company has no grounds for claim denial.
I have been watching this thread with great interest as I will need to have my Rivian Wall Charger installed in my garage whenever it shows up (hopefully with an R1T attached).

I am struggling to understand some of the concepts regarding breakers and load ratings for various charging levels. My main panel already has 240v with two 30A breakers: one for the electric heater, and the other for the electric clothes dryer.

Do I need to have my electrician install a 50A breaker, or can I have just have them add another 30A breaker in the same panel (there is space available)? I realize that wire will need to be pulled, but the location where I want the charger is only two plus feet from the main panel. I was looking over the Rivian Wall Charger installation instructions but it is all in a language that electricians speak and I don't.

Pluses or minuses to either arrangement? What would you consider to be the best arrangement if you already have 240 to the main?
 

Acoustic71

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Meh. code is optional with DIY btw if we want to be code sticklers then that whip isn’t secured to code either. :) I don’t know what you’re talking about, MC is beautiful
The general contractor that remodeled our home (prior to our purchase), didn't think much of code either. But he sure knew how to hide his transgressions. So far we have spent $6,000 just fixing the things he chose to ignore that were obvious code violations. Whenever we have an issue the first thing I hear come out of our electrician's mouth is, "What the hell?"

So forgive me if I and others want to do it right - the first time.
 

SANZC02

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I have been watching this thread with great interest as I will need to have my Rivian Wall Charger installed in my garage whenever it shows up (hopefully with an R1T attached).

I am struggling to understand some of the concepts regarding breakers and load ratings for various charging levels. My main panel already has 240v with two 30A breakers: one for the electric heater, and the other for the electric clothes dryer.

Do I need to have my electrician install a 50A breaker, or can I have just have them add another 30A breaker in the same panel (there is space available)? I realize that wire will need to be pulled, but the location where I want the charger is only two plus feet from the main panel. I was looking over the Rivian Wall Charger installation instructions but it is all in a language that electricians speak and I don't.

Pluses or minuses to either arrangement? What would you consider to be the best arrangement if you already have 240 to the main?
You should have the electrician put in a 60 amp breaker so you can get the full 48 amp charging. There should be no difference in price between 50 and 60 amp circuit over that short of a run.
 

ajdelange

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I am struggling to understand some of the concepts regarding breakers and load ratings for various charging levels. My main panel already has 240v with two 30A breakers: one for the electric heater, and the other for the electric clothes dryer.


The relationship is quite simple. A circuit rated for X amps must be de-rated to 0.8X if it serves a "continuous" load meaning that it stays connected for more than 3 hours. EVSE is deemed continuous even if it is only on for half an hour. So a circuit with a 30A breaker must not be used for more than 24A, a 50A breaker for more than 40A etc.

Do I need to have my electrician install a 50A breaker, or can I have just have them add another 30A breaker in the same panel (there is space available)?
Have him put in the biggest breaker that doesn't overload your panel. Assuming you have 200A service (the main breaker at the top is rated 200A) and only two 30A breakers you can probably install a 60A breaker for the EVSE from which you can get 48A. That's the most the truck can take.[/QUOTE]
 


Acoustic71

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The relationship is quite simple. A circuit rated for X amps must be de-rated to 0.8X if it serves a "continuous" load meaning that it stays connected for more than 3 hours. EVSE is deemed continuous even if it is only on for half an hour. So a circuit with a 30A breaker must not be used for more than 24A, a 50A breaker for more than 40A etc.

Have him put in the biggest breaker that doesn't overload your panel. Assuming you have 200A service (the main breaker at the top is rated 200A) and only two 30A breakers you can probably install a 60A breaker for the EVSE from which you can get 48A. That's the most the truck can take.
Yes! I just checked and I have a 200A main. So a 60A breaker it is, provided the electrician determines I won't be overloading the main.

Thank you for understanding where I was going with my question. I appreciate the knowledge and experience you provide.
 
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sac602

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This is very interesting thread, thanks everyone for your input. I'm having solar installed and the company just quoted me $3500 to wire the ev charger. Wow. Seems super easy as it runs about 60-70 feet along ceiling of an unfinished basement, 3-4 feet up inside of wall (or directly through wall then up 3-4 feet in conduit on inside garage wall) to charger location. Is it worth doing a subpanel in case another charger is ever wanted? I gleaned from this thread that this is the correct wire. Tia.

Screenshot_20220619-125209_Chrome.jpg
 

timesinks

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This is very interesting thread, thanks everyone for your input. I'm having solar installed and the company just quoted me $3500 to wire the ev charger. Wow. Seems super easy as it runs about 60-70 feet along ceiling of an unfinished basement, 3-4 feet up inside of wall (or directly through wall then up 3-4 feet in conduit on inside garage wall) to charger location. Is it worth doing a subpanel in case another charger is ever wanted? I gleaned from this thread that this is the correct wire. Tia.

Screenshot_20220619-125209_Chrome.jpg
That cable type is not for home use. [Edited: @ajdelange pointed out there is an exception that allows it to be used in one- and two-family homes if installed according to the Romex codes].

The simplest approach for DIY would be a metallic cable: https://www.wireandcableyourway.com...rmored-metal-clad-cable-250ft-or-1000ft-spool

Or you can build a raceway with conduit and pull THHN through it.
 
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ajdelange

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That cable type is not for home use.
Yes, it is. Art. 336.10(9). But you need to verify that the cable is TC-ER-JP.

The simplest approach for DIY would be a metallic cable:
If you can hide it (i.e. EVSE is on the wall and the MC (I'm old enough that I still call it BX) is hidden in the wall.

Or you can build a raceway with conduit and pull THHN through it.
If you are going to build a "raceway" (conduit) you might as well pull individual pieces of single conductor THHN as they are easier to find and you won't have to deal with the arcana of Art. 336. Exposed conduit doesn't look bad either if neatly installed.
 
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Tommy

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If you can hide it (i.e. EVSE is on the wall and the MC (I'm old enough that I still call it BX) is hidden in the wall.
Why would you need to hide it, or is this just for aesthetics? Please explain. Thanks.
 

 
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