Should 20" Wheels be the standard wheel included

[emoore]

Well. In this case. Some people. A small percentage will be happy with 250 miles.
a majority won’t be happy. They just know it yet, unless they already own a Tesla.

range is so important. For many reasons.

think of owning a boat. Sounds great. Until you really find how much they cost to operate, store and maintain.

juts trying help people out who are new to EV. Not trying to be a Dick.

peace.

Ha. nice post. So everyone who owns a Leaf, Bolt, etron, taycan, ID3, ID4, Mach E, Model 3 SR, aren't happy? Good thing you are there to tell them they are not happy.

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[Eager2own]

Well. In this case. Some people. A small percentage will be happy with 250 miles.
a majority won’t be happy. They just know it yet, unless they already own a Tesla.

range is so important. For many reasons.

think of owning a boat. Sounds great. Until you really find how much they cost to operate, store and maintain.

juts trying help people out who are new to EV. Not trying to be a Dick.

peace.

Or to put it another way, you might say... Range is King, amiright?

 

[TessP100D]

Or to put it another way, you might say... Range is King, amiright?

Yes sir.

let’s take a look.

say you have a truck with only 250 miles of range. Ok. Seems ok….. not really.

how is that used on a daily basis?

since You don’t use the top and bottom of the battery, you will commonly charge to 90%. Ok, so you start with usable range of 225. Now, on Your trip, you need to get to where your going, and then back. So, 225 divided by 2 = 112.5 miles of range. Now you never drive to your empty, as charging stations are not on every corner like gas stations. Not yet anyways. So let’s deduct another 10 miles at least for reserve. Thats 5 each way. So we start each trip with an effective range of 107.5. But wait, the math fun is not over. EV range is not an exact science. You will loose range because of elevations change or grade, and also weather like wind, or cold, and of course heavy foot driving. I have found you loose about 25-30% on Average. So the reality is on a daily basis your 250 range is really only about 75-80 miles each way. That’s a little more than an hours worth of driving.

that’s fine if your going to Home Depot, or dropping off the kids at school, or some other around town trip. But say you have to go out of town to grammas house, or to see the grand kids, go fishing or go to the lake house. All of a sudden it becomes a big deal. Charging stations are not common, not easy to find, not ‘’right on the way’’. Right now, their a pain in the ass. Oh, and one last thing, let’s. It not forget about battery range loss due to denigration. That’s real too.

My 2017 Tesla started with 320 miles of range. Seems like a lot… right? not really. She’s already down to 295 at 100% charge. When I go to the lake house it’s about a 90 mile drive. 1/2 of the drive is freeway and the second have is up the mountain to 5200 feet above sea level. When I get to my house I only have about 126 miles of range left. That’s it. Range loss is really big with driving up a grade. So I use on average 169 miles of range to go 90 miles. The Mountain town has no public chargers. If i plug into my house using 110 power, that only 3-4 miles an hour charging. Not a great solution. It takes 3-4 days to fully charge again. now, Imagine of your out camping or rock crawling in your bad ass brand new Rivian. When you get to your destination, all your going to think about is ………. geez where can I charge?

yes, every situation is different. I don’t like to have to charge every-time I take a trip. I want to be able to enjoy my EV, tale a trip and come back and charge at home. So I am very limited on round trip distances. Of course if I’m going on a long road trip, I would have to charge. But… I have this advantage of using the Tesla Supercharging Network (for free), or I could also use the crappy public systems. Other EV’s, have only Public Charging available to them right now.
Will it get better, I hope so, is it great now….ahh no.

so… Is Range King? You bet your ass it is.

peace.

 

[SANZC02]

Yes sir.

let’s take a look.

say you have a truck with only 250 miles of range. Ok. Seems ok….. not really.

how is that used on a daily basis?

since You don’t use the top and bottom of the battery, you will commonly charge to 90%. Ok, so you start with usable range of 225. Now, on Your trip, you need to get to where your going, and then back. So, 225 divided by 2 = 112.5 miles of range. Now you never drive to your empty, as charging stations are not on every corner like gas stations. Not yet anyways. So let’s deduct another 10 miles at least for reserve. Thats 5 each way. So we start each trip with an effective range of 107.5. But wait, the math fun is not over. EV range is not an exact science. You will loose range because of elevations change or grade, and also weather like wind, or cold, and of course heavy foot driving. I have found you loose about 25-30% on Average. So the reality is on a daily basis your 250 range is really only about 75-80 miles each way. That’s a little more than an hours worth of driving.

that’s fine if your going to Home Depot, or dropping off the kids at school, or some other around town trip. But say you have to go out of town to grammas house, or to see the grand kids, go fishing or go to the lake house. All of a sudden it becomes a big deal. Charging stations are not common, not easy to find, not ‘’right on the way’’. Right now, their a pain in the ass. Oh, and one last thing, let’s. It not forget about battery range loss due to denigration. That’s real too.

My 2017 Tesla started with 320 miles of range. Seems like a lot… right? not really. She’s already down to 295 at 100% charge. When I go to the lake house it’s about a 90 mile drive. 1/2 of the drive is freeway and the second have is up the mountain to 5200 feet above sea level. When I get to my house I only have about 126 miles of range left. That’s it. Range loss is really big with driving up a grade. So I use on average 169 miles of range to go 90 miles. The Mountain town has no public chargers. If i plug into my house using 110 power, that only 3-4 miles an hour charging. Not a great solution. It takes 3-4 days to fully charge again. now, Imagine of your out camping or rock crawling in your bad ass brand new Rivian. When you get to your destination, all your going to think about is ………. geez where can I charge?

yes, every situation is different. I don’t like to have to charge every-time I take a trip. I want to be able to enjoy my EV, tale a trip and come back and charge at home. So I am very limited on round trip distances. Of course if I’m going on a long road trip, I would have to charge. But… I have this advantage of using the Tesla Supercharging Network (for free), or I could also use the crappy public systems. Other EV’s, have only Public Charging available to them right now.
Will it get better, I hope so, is it great now….ahh no.

so… Is Range King? You bet your ass it is.

peace.

I think you miss the point here. Are there times where you need large battery packs with huge range, sure... In reality, 250 miles is more than enough for so many use cases. I would offer that 90+% of the use cases for an EV has no requirement for range beyond 150 miles so a 250 mile range is plenty.

Using your level of thinking we should all rent u-hauls when we go to the grocery store because we may want to buy something that won't fit in the current vehicle.

Are there cases where range is king, sure, is it the majority of the use cases, not even close.

 

[Gshenderson]

I have this advantage of using the Tesla Supercharging Network (for free), or I could also use the crappy public systems. Other EV’s, have only Public Charging available to them right now.
Will it get better, I hope so, is it great now….ahh no.

^^^^^^ This. Charging infrastructure is King. ?

 

[TessP100D]

I think you miss the point here. Are there times where you need large battery packs with huge range, sure... In reality, 250 miles is more than enough for so many use cases. I would offer that 90+% of the use cases for an EV has no requirement for range beyond 150 miles so a 250 mile range is plenty.

Using your level of thinking we should all rent u-hauls when we go to the grocery store because we may want to buy something that won't fit in the current vehicle.

Are there cases where range is king, sure, is it the majority of the use cases, not even close.

what I would day is this…. If you already have an EV, you understand what I’m saying. Of you do nit have an EV, and the Rivian will be your first EV, when will soon. Ow I’m right.

 

[TessP100D]

^^^^^^ This. Charging infrastructure is King. ?

Ahh no…. Range is King.


charging locations or network is very important no doubt. At this stage however, any. EV buyer is going be frustrated looking for charging stations. They are just not that convenient yet. Maybe in 10 years Range won’t be so important if two things happen. 1: More charging stations. A lot more.
2: Way faster Charging times.

until then. Range is King.

 

[SANZC02]

what I would day is this…. If you already have an EV, you understand what I’m saying. Of you do nit have an EV, and the Rivian will be your first EV, when will soon. Ow I’m right.

I do already have a EV, it had an initial range of 249 miles, currently in the 230 mile range.

I know what you are saying and I can say for you it may be right, but to assume this is correct for everyone is completely wrong.

I have had this car for 5 years, never been stranded, never have wanted to take it somewhere I could not go because of lack of range or lack of charging infrastructure. My use case is well under 5% of my trips are > 200 miles.

Looking at getting the R1S and for me and my use cases, the 300 mile range will be no problem.

People need to understand what they typically use their vehicle for and determine what they need.

 

[sub]

Yes sir.

let’s take a look.

say you have a truck with only 250 miles of range. Ok. Seems ok….. not really.

how is that used on a daily basis?

since You don’t use the top and bottom of the battery, you will commonly charge to 90%. Ok, so you start with usable range of 225. Now, on Your trip, you need to get to where your going, and then back. So, 225 divided by 2 = 112.5 miles of range. Now you never drive to your empty, as charging stations are not on every corner like gas stations. Not yet anyways. So let’s deduct another 10 miles at least for reserve. Thats 5 each way. So we start each trip with an effective range of 107.5. But wait, the math fun is not over. EV range is not an exact science. You will loose range because of elevations change or grade, and also weather like wind, or cold, and of course heavy foot driving. I have found you loose about 25-30% on Average. So the reality is on a daily basis your 250 range is really only about 75-80 miles each way. That’s a little more than an hours worth of driving.

I agree range is really important and I would never suggest that anyone not buy as much range as available/they can afford. And I agree with your math. But I think your math shows that 250 vs 300 is not hugely consequential. Because the same math applies to a 300 mile car too. If a 250 (rated) mile car is actually only good for 75 miles each way, then a 300 mile car is only good for 90 miles each way. Not that big of a difference.

I don't know if I have ever gone on a round trip more than 75 miles each way but less than 90 miles each way. I am sure there is someone out there that frequents a location more than 75 but less than 90 miles away that does not have charging available at the destination or anywhere along the route. But that is a very specific and unusual situation.

At least for my use case, and I suspect for the vast majority of people, 99% of the time and am just driving to/from work and that is not anywhere near 75 miles each way. And the other 1% of the time I am going way farther than any EV is going to do without recharging at some point on the trip so the round-trip without charging math is irrelevant.

Ohh and why wouldn't you just install a 240V outlet at "grammas house, the grand kids, and the lake house"? Even if your family does not have electric cars yet, with so many vehicle manufactures talking about plans to completely phase out ICE in the next 10-15 years, even the most ICE loving family members should recognize that they are going to need a place to charge before too long anyway. If you offer to foot the bill, I would think most family would be open to letting you install an outlet, I know everyone in my family has.

 

[kylealden]

what I would day is this…. If you already have an EV, you understand what I’m saying. Of you do nit have an EV, and the Rivian will be your first EV, when will soon. Ow I’m right.

On the other hand, I'm on my second EV, Rivian will be my third, and I completely disagree with you. 250 real-world is demonstrably enough for most people and most circumstances.

But something tells me that you won't find that convincing. ?

 

[TessP100D]

On the other hand, I'm on my second EV, Rivian will be my third, and I completely disagree with you. 250 real-world is demonstrably enough for most people and most circumstances.

But something tells me that you won't find that convincing. ?

Nope.

 

[kylealden]

And I only have a regular-ass 120v outlet at home. Guess I'm an EV unicorn?

 

[Gamma rays]

At $1,800 to "upgrade" to the 20", it will take 2 sets of tires to be close to break even on the difference if each 21" tire is $200 more than a 20" ($200 x 4=$800 per set). If these tires need to be replaced every 3 years, it will be about 12 years before a 4th set is needed.

Since I plan to keep my R1S at least that long (I am hoping it's built to last that long), I probably should opt for the upgrade. Are these reasonable assumptions based on info currently available?

GR

 

[ThomV]

In the spring of this year I contacted CS and this is how they described the following:

"Regarding the differences of range for the 20" and 22", without any final specifications yet to be released on the range, it's hard to say which one will affect mileage rage the most. Your Guide will be able to answer this question better when they reach out for introductions. I want to share that the 21" design is the best for the range of all three sets of tires offered and any accessories added to the top would have a design engineered to obtain maximum aerodynamics."
As usual it's a partial answer with more to come. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about with 21" rims and tires. I've had my Q7's with both Pirelli and Michelin 275-40R21-RTX type tires over the past years with no problems.
After discussing this with the CS I changed my Configuration to the 21" choice because range is important in this EVolution Rivian is trying to make happen .

 

[SeaGeo]

On the other hand, I'm on my second EV, Rivian will be my third, and I completely disagree with you. 250 real-world is demonstrably enough for most people and most circumstances.

But something tells me that you won't find that convincing. ?

It's been a struggle to find a route that I want to make that requires pushing my ID.4 to the max in a single day. And the ones that I have found are very easy to charge on route in our area. At least with roads I can take the ID.4 on. Even then, it's a long enough distance for a out and back day trip that my wife doesn't want to spend that much time in a car for a hike.

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