Disabling Wireless Charging Pad - Photos & Observations

[Sonartech]

Here's the female end+pins and such: 0310681011 Molex | Connectors, Interconnects | DigiKey

Sponsored

 

[crashmtb]

It's disappointing to learn that the performance is so mediocre. This unit is made for Rivian by Delta Electronics (FCCID 2A2EZVW30ACAP, VWPEN16C-30ACAPB, Model PT00062426-B) and has 18 Qi coils in it, and is supposed to provide 15W (CISPR-25). Also supports the CAN interface and should have the CAN BUS vocabulary to enable or disable through CAN BUS control. No way to disable the charging pad from the center console? If not, I think that's a Rivian software issue.

Here are the electrical specs:

9V at 5.6A (Max) is 50W. All to get 15W of wireless Qi charging power. Yeah, that's worse-case, max load, but still... Even if charging two devices, that's still quite lossy - specs claim 68% efficiency. But wireless charging sucks and we all already knew that. The coil arrangement is gratuitous:

You'd think after seeing all that overlap that the performance of this thing would be mind blowing...

Here's the main board + fan:

Mainboard back:

A picture in the external photo exhibits at the FCC shows an interesting cable that would help easily identify the primary power vs. CAN bus connections:

Given the max distance from the coil is 5mm… between the thickness of the rubber mat, the stupid camera bump on many phones, and the thickness of most phone cases, would that stackup of material thicknesses hurt charging, and explain why it isn’t performing well?

 

[Sonartech]

YES!

 

[crashmtb]

YES!

camera bump alone is probably enough to make things get all fucky I bet

 

[SeaGeo]

camera bump alone is probably enough to make things get all fucky I bet

Yep. Stop buying camera bumps and phone cases. This is the way.

 

[crashmtb]

Yep. Stop buying camera bumps and phone cases. This is the way.

I am waiting for apple to “innovate” an iPhone thst can be used with one hand, with no camera bump and a headphone jack. Until then I will keep my iPhone SE from 2016.

 

[Zoidz]

It's disappointing to learn that the performance is so mediocre. This unit is made for Rivian by Delta Electronics (FCCID 2A2EZVW30ACAP, VWPEN16C-30ACAPB, Model PT00062426-B) and has 18 Qi coils in it, and is supposed to provide 15W (CISPR-25). Also supports the CAN interface and should have the CAN BUS vocabulary to enable or disable through CAN BUS control. No way to disable the charging pad from the center console? If not, I think that's a Rivian software issue.

Here are the electrical specs:

9V at 5.6A (Max) is 50W. All to get 15W of wireless Qi charging power. Yeah, that's worse-case, max load, but still... Even if charging two devices, that's still quite lossy - specs claim 68% efficiency. But wireless charging sucks and we all already knew that. The coil arrangement is gratuitous:

You'd think after seeing all that overlap that the performance of this thing would be mind blowing...

Here's the main board + fan:

Mainboard back:

A picture in the external photo exhibits at the FCC shows an interesting cable that would help easily identify the primary power vs. CAN bus connections:

Thanks for the info!

I've always felt that wireless charging over promises and under delivers, so I used your post to do some research on Wireless Charging components and the QI spec ('cuz I'm a tech info geek, lol, and like to learn about these things). There are links to references inline below. A couple of things I found:

Power Consumption - It appears that it can charge two devices simultaneously (page 73 of the R1T manual) at 15 watts per device max. so it can deliver up to 30 watts Tx power at 50w input. We can safely assume that it won't be consuming that much input power when charging one phone, or no phones at all. From what I read, per the QI spec, the phone tells the charging pad the maximum charging rate, so it's an intelligent charging system.

iPhones appear to be limited to 7.5 watts wireless charging, unless it is an Apple MagSafe wireless charging device which provides 15 watts. I haven't seen anything that indicates this is Apple certified. Other brands of phones communicate similar charge rates.

Charging Coils - Several references indicate that multiple coils don't/can't increase the charge rate, which makes sense. Wireless charging is basically creating an air core transformer, and for an air core transformer to work efficiently, the coils must be well aligned. The purpose of multiple coils is to make it easier to get good alignment on one of the coils to get good power transfer. In at least one NXP design, the wireless charging microprocessor detects which coil provides the best coupling and powers up only that coil.

Efficiency - Manufacturers like to say they are 70% - 75% - whatever % efficient. But that's when the coils are perfectly aligned, etc. Real world tests indicate much less efficiency.

Phantom Drain? - One reference pointed out that when powered on, the charge pad is scanning for a device that is put in place - therefore, consuming power. An interesting test would be to park your Rivian with the window down, wait 20 or 30 minutes, and put a phone on the charge pad through the window. If it starts charging the phone, it was consuming power the whole time.

Unless Rivian provides a way to turn this off, I'll probably unplug it.

 

[riviancanucknb]

I wonder how many people on this thread actually have a lot of experience charging wirelessly at all...

- A 15W Qi charger does not actually deliver 15W in the real world. 15W is the ideal, perfect scenario. Camera bumps, cases, and the rubber mat itself all combine to make the wattage delivered far less.
- On a typical phone with a case, a 15W Qi charger is likely to take well over 2 hours to fully charge a phone.
- Qi chargers are better thought of as battery maintainers and slow chargers. You put your phone there to charge slowly on a long drive. Expecting it to charge significantly during a daily commute is entirely unrealistic expectations
- Qi does not draw energy when not in use. It detects the other coil and only draws significant energy then. It is not drawing 15w/coil vampire. The vampire draw would be very, very low.
- Why anyone is concerned with their keys / etc is beyond me. Placing a set of keys on top of an inactive Qi charger is not going to do anything at all.
- FYI even though I did not see it mentioned, wireless charging produces a lot of heat on the outside of the phone. The heat is increased if you have a case. It is perfectly normal.

The"sliding around" problem I can't comment on as I don't have my vehicle yet, but it sounds like a very severe design flaw. There are rubber mats you can buy at the dollar store that hold phones very tight when placed on them and make sliding a non-issue, even up on top of the dash. Why Rivian did not use this material is beyond me. If the rubber matt is truely removeable as easy as you say you may want to think about applying a spray-on adhesdive coating to add tackiness. You could test it on the underside of the mat first for color-fastness.

 

[Blueassassin]

Does it look like there is enough depth there to put a nice cupholder in that spot? I would rather do a nice mag safe phone mount on the dash. Then It would be nice to covert this space to a cup holder that is solid and doesn't slide out.

 

[Zoidz]

Does it look like there is enough depth there to put a nice cupholder in that spot? I would rather do a nice mag safe phone mount on the dash. Then It would be nice to covert this space to a cup holder that is solid and doesn't slide out.

"Fires up Fusion 360 and the 3D printer"

 

[Blueassassin]

"Fires up Fusion 360 and the 3D printer"

Lets GO!

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

- Why anyone is concerned with their keys / etc is beyond me. Placing a set of keys on top of an inactive Qi charger is not going to do anything at all.

I do not agree with that assertion. Wireless charging mats are constantly "pulsing" their coils trying to detect a compatible device. Putting metal objects on the mat can cause issues. The keycards are RFID and have a metal coil in them, so they would be energized by the charging mat. Most of the time nothing bad will happen, but it is best to avoid putting anything (other than a compatible device) on the mat.

 

[Zoidz]

I wonder how many people on this thread actually have a lot of experience charging wirelessly at all...

- A 15W Qi charger does not actually deliver 15W in the real world. 15W is the ideal, perfect scenario. Camera bumps, cases, and the rubber mat itself all combine to make the wattage delivered far less.
- On a typical phone with a case, a 15W Qi charger is likely to take well over 2 hours to fully charge a phone.
- Qi chargers are better thought of as battery maintainers and slow chargers. You put your phone there to charge slowly on a long drive. Expecting it to charge significantly during a daily commute is entirely unrealistic expectations
- Qi does not draw energy when not in use. It detects the other coil and only draws significant energy then. It is not drawing 15w/coil vampire. The vampire draw would be very, very low.
- Why anyone is concerned with their keys / etc is beyond me. Placing a set of keys on top of an inactive Qi charger is not going to do anything at all.
- FYI even though I did not see it mentioned, wireless charging produces a lot of heat on the outside of the phone. The heat is increased if you have a case. It is perfectly normal.

The"sliding around" problem I can't comment on as I don't have my vehicle yet, but it sounds like a very severe design flaw. There are rubber mats you can buy at the dollar store that hold phones very tight when placed on them and make sliding a non-issue, even up on top of the dash. Why Rivian did not use this material is beyond me. If the rubber matt is truely removeable as easy as you say you may want to think about applying a spray-on adhesdive coating to add tackiness. You could test it on the underside of the mat first for color-fastness.

I have an Ubiolabs Aspect charger. It works, but it's underwhelming. It can be really finicky about exactly positioning the phone. And yes, it does generates/retains more heat than if charging by cable.

 

[Zoidz]

I do not agree with that assertion. Wireless charging mats are constantly "pulsing" their coils trying to detect a compatible device. Putting metal objects on the mat can cause issues. The keycards are RFID and have a metal coil in them, so they would be energized by the charging mat. Most of the time nothing bad will happen, but it is best to avoid putting anything (other than a compatible device) on the mat.

Agree - from one of the references I posted it can consume as much as 3 to 5 amps in 24 hours just searching on a SINGLE COIL device:

"The Qi protocol can detect and transmit power to a device in a way that is safe and reliable. However, because it was designed with limited-position charging in mind, it’s slow and power intensive. In a single 24-hour period, simply by searching for a chargeable device, a single coil transmitter can emit between 3,000mAh and 5,000mAh worth of energy, and can take up to one second to find a device. When scaling that up to a 16-coil or 18-coil system, the daily power output becomes substantial, and the timing to find a device can take several seconds. That may not sound like a lot, but in a world where user experience is king, that’s far too long."

 

[SANZC02]

Agree - from one of the references I posted it can consume as much as 3 to 5 amps in 24 hours just searching on a SINGLE COIL device:

"The Qi protocol can detect and transmit power to a device in a way that is safe and reliable. However, because it was designed with limited-position charging in mind, it’s slow and power intensive. In a single 24-hour period, simply by searching for a chargeable device, a single coil transmitter can emit between 3,000mAh and 5,000mAh worth of energy, and can take up to one second to find a device. When scaling that up to a 16-coil or 18-coil system, the daily power output becomes substantial, and the timing to find a device can take several seconds. That may not sound like a lot, but in a world where user experience is king, that’s far too long."

Has anyone tested to see if it is a constant power source or switched source powering the charger?

I would be surprised if it is active when the vehicle is off.

Sponsored