What will we learn 6/7 - 6/13?

[kanundrum]

Okay this was funny AF LOL.

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[SeaGeo]

Okay this was funny AF LOL.

did they delete that post? It looks like it was on facebook, but I can't find it.

 

[kanundrum]

did they delete that post? It looks like it was on facebook, but I can't find it.

Linked in

 

[azbill]

You may be surprised, but ALL of them were automotive manufacturers that either made, or plan to make full vehicles. MOST of them have actually delivered vehicles into the hands of paying customers.

Has delivered vehicles to customers
Anteros Coachworks
Arcimoto
Equus Automotive
Falcon Motorsports
Faraday Future
Factory Five Racing
Global Electric Motorcars
Hennessey Special Vehicles
Karma Automotive
Local Motors
Myers Motors
Rezvani Automotive Designs
Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus
Shelby American
SSC North America
Tesla
Trion Supercars
Vanderhall Motor Works
Vaydor
VIA Motors
VLF Automotive
Wheego Technologies

Prototype demonstrated, but not yet delivered to customers
Aptera Motors
Bollinger Motors
Bremach
Czinger
Elio Motors
Lordstown Motors
Lucid Motors
RAESR
Rivian

No public prototype, but planning to release in future
Mullen Technologies
Workhorse Group

Prototype demonstrated, and still technically operating but will probably become defunct
Nikola Corporation

Lordstown was spun off of Workhorse a few years ago. I visited them in Cincinnati and got to see their piloted quad copter (SureFly). They were also working on delivery drones for UPS.

 

[Eager2own]

Okay this was funny AF LOL.

Problem is that person’s likely using real name... so that’s someone who just got bumped down the contact list.

 

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

Perhaps, because the zoning, permitting, and construction processes (with all the Covid supply chain issues) makes it nearly impossible to predict when they'll be able to open their service centers. Would you prefer they produce a bunch of "tentative" dates - only to have those dates slip and slip?

I'd rather they not communicate specific openings until they happen. I mean, what exactly would we do with the information if we had it - what actions might we take? For me, my actions won't change - when my name gets picked and I get called by a Guide, then I'll evaluate my alternatives and decide what to do. Until then, it's only self-abuse (IMHO).

I just want to second this. I work in the architecture and design industry, and the number of permit delays, especially in areas that were locked down longer (i.e. the west coast) is astounding. We consulted on a fairly simple housing project, no rezoning, which has now been stuck in the permit process for a year and a half.

Add onto that material and labor shortages, and outfitting even a simple storefront is very complex. Something more complex like a service center is going to take time to design, bid, permit, and wait for the contractor to be available to start work. And that's assuming there are no extra environmental reviews, zoning changes, etc.

 

[BoltEVowner]

[If there are bottlenecks, it's likely due to part shortages, design defects, or general execution competence.]

Or, it could be less than stellar EPA ratings. Either they are "really" still unknown, or they may not be so good. With deliveries now projected to start next month, this information is crucial. Many of us are sitting on the fence of Large vs Max pack, and trying to decide on wheel configuration, a lot based on these figures. If the 21 inch road tires rate greater than 310 miles, I am good. If not, need to rethink the Max pack, drop my LE, and set my sights on a delivery middle of next year or so. This is worrisome.

 

[Trandall]

Perhaps, because the zoning, permitting, and construction processes (with all the Covid supply chain issues) makes it nearly impossible to predict when they'll be able to open their service centers. Would you prefer they produce a bunch of "tentative" dates - only to have those dates slip and slip?

I'd rather they not communicate specific openings until they happen. I mean, what exactly would we do with the information if we had it - what actions might we take? For me, my actions won't change - when my name gets picked and I get called by a Guide, then I'll evaluate my alternatives and decide what to do. Until then, it's only self-abuse (IMHO).

I just want to second this. I work in the architecture and design industry, and the number of permit delays, especially in areas that were locked down longer (i.e. the west coast) is astounding. We consulted on a fairly simple housing project, no rezoning, which has now been stuck in the permit process for a year and a half.

Add onto that material and labor shortages, and outfitting even a simple storefront is very complex. Something more complex like a service center is going to take time to design, bid, permit, and wait for the contractor to be available to start work. And that's assuming there are no extra environmental reviews, zoning changes, etc.

It must be nice to live in a world where not only do you not have to meet a schedule but you don't even need to set a schedule for your stakeholders to use for their own planning purposes.
I am currently managing $23 million phase 1 of a larger 120 million construction project and we have major material delays and manpower issues however we didn't have the luxury of shutting down and we must maintain a schedule. if it has significant slippage we must adapt and overcome by whatever means necessary. Loss of continuous operation of the customer facility has major ramifications. My point is just because it is hard doesn't mean it can't be done.
As for as what would we do with the info anyway: how about make sure we have a plan for continuity of transportation. If I have $80K earmarked for transportation expected by XXXX date it's reasonable to expect it by this date. As some including myself have mentioned their are materially important decisions individuals/ families need to make based on the vauge unreliable info Rivian has communicated. Meanwhile RJ is gallivanting around "testing" offroad capability and roof top tents with his family. You want to be a billionaire EV CEO then step up if not step aside so someone that's highly motivated can. Is this stance harsh... yes, but it's the reality of what it takes.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

It must be nice to live in a world where not only do you not have to meet a schedule but you don't even need to set a schedule for your stakeholders to use for their own planning purposes.
I am currently managing $23 million phase 1 of a larger 120 million construction project and we have major material delays and manpower issues however we didn't have the luxury of shutting down and we must maintain a schedule. if it has significant slippage we must adapt and overcome by whatever means necessary. Loss of continuous operation of the customer facility has major ramifications. My point is just because it is hard doesn't mean it can't be done.
As for as what would we do with the info anyway: how about make sure we have a plan for continuity of transportation. If I have $80K earmarked for transportation expected by XXXX date it's reasonable to expect it by this date. As some including myself have mentioned their are materially important decisions individuals/ families need to make based on the vauge unreliable info Rivian has communicated. Meanwhile RJ is gallivanting around "testing" offroad capability and roof top tents with his family. You want to be a billionaire EV CEO then step up if not step aside so someone that's highly motivated can. Is this stance harsh... yes, but it's the reality of what it takes.

While I agree in principle, in the end all the planning you throw at something can go sideways when one or more things don't go accordingly. Be it a design change, or a trade or two not having the adequate manpower etc to meet the schedule. I'm currently at the mercy of the waterproofing subcontractor and the Landscape Architect, I've downsized my crew accordingly on this particular site, and sent them to other projects, but in the end, the schedule keeps rolling past its initial deadlines and you cope.

Similarly on Rivians end, you set a deadline, you remove roadblocks prohibiting you from reaching that deadline, but there's always a curve ball. Supplier A can't deliver part B in the quantities originally projected by the deadline. Ok, do we go with another supplier to make up the gap, or wait for Supplier A to fill the order slightly later?

As someone pointed out earlier, permitting has been ridiculous leading up to covid, but then exacerbated during, as many permitting dept's have been working remotely or with reduced staffing. Is it the fault of the builder for not giving the city extra time?

Yes, several of these centers, should have been up and running before the initial delivery date of end of 2020, but given everything that happened and the immense uncertainty as to what direction markets would go February/March of that year (yes we can look back now and know, but at the time, most of the world was shutting down, my project included, which added 6 months to an already overdrawn shcedule ((shitty drawings, even shittier coordination)) and there was no end in sight) so if they need time, whatever. They've told you by spring next year you will have an LE. Plan accordingly.

 

[MurryR1T]

I've been ruminating and decided to put pen to paper (so to speak).

From what we can tell via the message boards, the only customers who have been contacted are Washingtonians close to a Service center that is "close" to opening. There may be many others but from the people who have been vocal these are the only ones that have come forward. I believe the earliest delivery date given was an August/September timeframe (AdamL if I remember correctly). There are several things that I take from this and some have been mentioned.
First, there will be no deliveries of consequence until mid August at the earliest. There will be July deliveries but my guess it will be employees or high profile individuals (Bezos comes to mind). I would venture a guess that no member of any of the public forums will take delivery until after the first test drives take place.
Secondly, living in Texas I believe a while back there were job openings in Austin for a service center but I cannot find a location let alone a building under construction or rehabilitation (unless I missed it??). This leads me to believe my delivery will come much later than I want to currently wrap my head around. I am currently hoping for a birthday gift in January, the next few months will hopefully crystalize this timeline. I firmly believe the current company strategy is to have close access to service centers for each delivered vehicle.
Third... the rollout and continuity of pre-orders to actual deliveries is bothersome to me. It is feasible at this point to assume there will be late 2019 or even early 2020 pre-orders that may get their vehicle before myself or others. Being a February 2019 pre-order is a source of pride for me. I work with 2 individuals who are/were day 1 pre-orders and one gentleman who ordered mid-late 2020. One of the day 1 guys has already canceled due to the covid delay and the other is a R1S reservation holder with the max pack. The 2020 guy lives in Colorado and if he gets his before me would be devastating. In the end does it matter as long as I get the vehicle? maybe not... but Why am I being "punished" when I have been a Riviot since early on in the process.
Again, these are just thoughts in my head. Some have been debated on here at length. Others have zero basis in fact, just assumptions based on the trajectory we are on and the lack of information to fill the gaps. It may "sound" like I am being "whiny" as someone said, I cannot change people's perceptions of my thoughts and I will leave it at that.

 

[sevengroove]

As for as what would we do with the info anyway: how about make sure we have a plan for continuity of transportation. If I have $80K earmarked for transportation expected by XXXX date it's reasonable to expect it by this date.

While I too agree with you in principle, you are conveniently leaving out the part where Rivian is a startup in the automotive industry. If that $80k earmarked for transportation is a critical milestone to your "project" and will bottleneck other steps, you were probably better off picking a tried and tested transportation option instead. Even still, if you wanted to stick with Rivian, then good planning sense dictates that you will also have a contingency plan. By XXX date if Supplier A does not deliver then move on to Supplier B/C etc.

Not defending anything that Rivian is doing because I'm just as disappointed with the delays, but how we deal with the delays is on us, not them.

 

[Trandall]

@MountainBikeDude @sevengroove my last post was just another rant stemming from my lack of placing immediate pre-orders for either the Ford Lightning or Hyundai Ioniq 5 (I have since reserverd both at much later likely delivery dates) at the time they came available I incorrectly believed all launch editions would be delivered this year.
At the end of the day I doubt any of us would be so passionate as to waste our time on a message board and stress incessantly if Rivian didn't have such a compelling kick ass truck and SUV coming soon. While I stand by my critizism of RJ, I will admit it is made out of selfishness and I also think what he and his team created is superior to anything on the horizon from competitors.

 

[cc84]

..... Being a February 2019 pre-order is a source of pride for me....... It may "sound" like I am being "whiny" as someone said, I cannot change people's perceptions of my thoughts and I will leave it at that.

I too am a February 2019 pre-order holder. You're not whiny at all, in my opinion. Say it like it is. I think you, along with myself, have the right to air our grievances, especially now that we're going on a 2 yr. 4 month wait.

Besides what you have mentioned, a problem for me is non-LE's will begin production and deliveries starting in January 2022, which means some people will get their non-LE's before the LE's have all been delivered. LE's are supposedly being completed by Spring 2022, which could very well mean June 2022, which is highly likely.

I have another twist to add to the lack of service centers in Texas. Nothing to it, but it keeps crossing my mind. Ford invested in Rivian, supposedly to use their platform to build a Lincoln, which now they're not going to do. Why are they still there? Why do they have a seat at Rivian's board? Could they possibly say, "Look, California sells as many, or more Ford F-150's as Texas. But, California is more EV friendly and better infrastructure for them, so why don't you ship your Trucks there first and leave us Texas. After all, Texas is Ford Country. Once we get our F-150 Lightening truck in production (coincidentally Spring 2022), then you can ship your trucks to Texas. I would like to get that thought off my mind. Maybe it's just there aren't enough orders in Texas.

Anyway, good luck with your order. Mine is R1T Silver/Black Mountain

 

[RWerksman]

Not defending anything that Rivian is doing because I'm just as disappointed with the delays, but how we deal with the delays is on us, not them.

Besides what you have mentioned, a problem for me is non-LE's will begin production and deliveries starting in January 2022, which means some people will get their non-LE's before the LE's have all been delivered. LE's are supposedly being completed by Spring 2022, which could very well mean June 2022, which is highly likely.

I've been thinking about this as well and I think it's highly probable that delivery of these vehicles will be pushed to "Summer of 2022" with additional guidance on them released on or about December 28th, 2021. ?

 

[LoneStar]

I think it's highly probable that delivery of these vehicles will be pushed to "Summer of 2022" with additional guidance on them released on or about December 28th, 2021. ?

I see what you did there! (unfortunately almost certainly right, about the non-LE push to follow LEs)

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