R1 vs Model S pricing

[SeaGeo]

The S does 0-60 in 3.1 seconds.
The R1T does 0-60 in 3 seconds.
Both have four doors and five seats.

The S fully self drives and says Tesla on it.

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[Autolycus]

The S fully self drives and says Tesla on it.

I mean, does it really fully self drive? And does it really say Tesla…. Ok, the 2nd part is true. Heheh

it’s a silly question from the start. Cost to manufacture is a really complicated and often non-obvious number. And the classic supply-demand model has two components rather than just one. So… yeah, an apple and an orange are about the same size and probably cost the same to transport the same distance, so why aren’t they priced identically?

 

[Ray R]

What makes an EV cost thousands more than a similarly equipped ICEV?

 

[TessP100D]

The S does 0-60 in 3.1 seconds.
The R1T does 0-60 in 3 seconds.
Both have four doors and five seats.

Ahh. My S does it in 2.3

 

[Tim-in-CA]

Ahh. My S does it in 2.3

Nice flex! ?

 

[Diddy123]

I regret opening and reading this thread.

 

[TessP100D]

I mean, does it really fully self drive? And does it really say Tesla…. Ok, the 2nd part is true. Heheh

it’s a silly question from the start. Cost to manufacture is a really complicated and often non-obvious number. And the classic supply-demand model has two components rather than just one. So… yeah, an apple and an orange are about the same size and probably cost the same to transport the same distance, so why aren’t they priced identically?

The S doesn’t not drive it self. And never will.
#The bigfraudFSD

 

[johnbro23]

The S fully self drives and says Tesla on it.

Tesla’s margins on S/X are actually low. The last time they disclosed S/X gross margins (not including overhead) was “around 20%” in late 2018. As Model 3 production ramped at that time, it crushed S/X demand, the company lowered S/X pricing and added features, so I believe their S/X gross margins are in the teens now. This compares to mid-20s gross margins for Model 3. I believe that the Model 3/Y are overpriced; and Musk even said at the shareholder meeting that prices will come down soon. They blame “supply chain costs” but thatbull- their margins have gone up consistently and they’re just trying to make more money and tamp down demand because they cant keep up with production (order a model 3 today and take delivery in April).

The key is scale. Model 3 has been 300k/yr+ vs S/X stuck at 80k/yr.

Rivian will likely have low margins on R1 because there probably isn’t demand for >40k/yr at this price point and niche part of the market. I’m surprised that Rivian priced so low tbh, and their actual margins will be lower than they initially planned because of rising supply costs.

back to the original topic on S vs R1 based on battery size: battery isn’t that big of a determinant. Tesla’s cost is around $100/KWh at the pack level so each battery costs $10,500. Compares to the 180kwh Rivian at $18,000.

it is actually really hard to say why Rivian priced so low vs Model S. some is explained by Rivian willing to run at low margins for this initial high-end vehicle to jump-start their brand and eventually sell 2 million+ cars / year to justify their $80bnvaluation. Some may be explained by S/X legacy manufacturing mistakes (10yr old battery pack design). Some may be explained by content (air suspension, higher quality materials). but ultimately, Model S is a bad deal, and unit sales for it will remain low.

Same could be said about Cybertruck: $50k cybertruck 300mi range is an even better deal than the $70k Rivian 300mi.

model s is a dinosaur

 

[SeaGeo]

I mean, does it really fully self drive? And does it really say Tesla…. Ok, the 2nd part is true. Heheh

I was trying to get @TessP100D riled up. ?

 

[TessP100D]

I was trying to get @TessP100D riled up. ?

Lol. Perfect.

 

[Autolycus]

Tesla’s margins on S/X are actually low. The last time they disclosed S/X gross margins (not including overhead) was “around 20%” in late 2018. As Model 3 production ramped at that time, it crushed S/X demand, the company lowered S/X pricing and added features, so I believe their S/X gross margins are in the teens now. This compares to mid-20s gross margins for Model 3. I believe that the Model 3/Y are overpriced; and Musk even said at the shareholder meeting that prices will come down soon. They blame “supply chain costs” but thatbull- their margins have gone up consistently and they’re just trying to make more money and tamp down demand because they cant keep up with production (order a model 3 today and take delivery in April).

The key is scale. Model 3 has been 300k/yr+ vs S/X stuck at 80k/yr.

Rivian will likely have low margins on R1 because there probably isn’t demand for >40k/yr at this price point and niche part of the market. I’m surprised that Rivian priced so low tbh, and their actual margins will be lower than they initially planned because of rising supply costs.

back to the original topic on S vs R1 based on battery size: battery isn’t that big of a determinant. Tesla’s cost is around $100/KWh at the pack level so each battery costs $10,500. Compares to the 180kwh Rivian at $18,000.

it is actually really hard to say why Rivian priced so low vs Model S. some is explained by Rivian willing to run at low margins for this initial high-end vehicle to jump-start their brand and eventually sell 2 million+ cars / year to justify their $80bnvaluation. Some may be explained by S/X legacy manufacturing mistakes (10yr old battery pack design). Some may be explained by content (air suspension, higher quality materials). but ultimately, Model S is a bad deal, and unit sales for it will remain low.

Same could be said about Cybertruck: $50k cybertruck 300mi range is an even better deal than the $70k Rivian 300mi.

model s is a dinosaur

I don’t think Tesla is down to $100/kWh at the pack level yet. But if they and Rivian were there, Rivian’s 180kWh Max pack would have an additional $4500 in margin compared to the 135kWh “large” pack which is the current standard configuration.

(45 extra kWh costs $10k)

 

[crashmtb]

The S doesn’t not drive it self. And never will.
#The bigfraudFSD

They seem to self drive themselves into things all the time ?

 

[TessP100D]

They seem to self drive themselves into things all the time ?

Lol. True I guess.

 

[hroussel]

i get your point, but the comparison is invalid. It’s a pickup truck vs a sedan.

Why would I buy a sectional sofa when I could buy a bed?

OK I might be the only one in the world, but I currently have an "old" 2017 model S75D. And my shortlist (I change next yeay) currently consists of:

- New 2021 model S LR
- Rivian R1S (I'm a LE reservation holder)
- BMW iX xDrive50

I mention R1S as the OP was taking about the "R1" vehicles.

I generally prefer sedans, especially such a good one as the model S, but like everybody else I guess I'm being tempted by SUVs. And besides, manufacturers don't seem interested in producing good EV sedans, except Tesla it seems.

 

[SANZC02]

OK I might be the only one in the world, but I currently have an "old" 2017 model S75D. And my shortlist (I change next yeay) currently consists of:

- New 2021 model S LR
- Rivian R1S (I'm a LE reservation holder)
- BMW iX xDrive50

I mention R1S as the OP was taking about the "R1" vehicles.

I generally prefer sedans, especially such a good one as the model S, but like everybody else I guess I'm being tempted by SUVs. And besides, manufacturers don't seem interested in producing good EV sedans, except Tesla it seems.

Might want to look at Lucid, the lower end models looks like may be in the Model S price range but look like might be actually a better car. The initial ones are the high end but later will be the lower priced ones.

There is an article online where someone drove it from LA to SF on a single charge

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