Need more range for skiing

[Yossarian]

The charging network will get much better this year when we get access to most superchargers. And it will only keep getting better. No reason to hold off on a Rivian or an EV.

As always, the devil is in the details, in this case that detail is how many Tesla SC's will support CCS charging. It's not clear to me what the actual number is, but it's certain that not every Tesla location will work for Rivians and other non-Tesla vehicles.

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[emoore]

As always, the devil is in the details, in this case that detail is how many Tesla SC's will support CCS charging. It's not clear to me what the actual number is, but it's certain that not every Tesla location will work for Rivians and other non-Tesla vehicles.

Getting Access To Tesla Superchargers Won't Solve All Your Charging Woes
Congratulations! Your new car can now use Tesla chargers. No, not that Tesla charger. Not that one either.

How Will Other Cars Charge At Superchargers In 2024?

All v3 and v4 superchargers will be available. Filter on 250 kw superchargers and you’ll see how many there are.

 

[Trandall]

@Sethsak 2 cents from another random internet opinion:
Optimist in me would say... you have a multitude of factors working against you (frequent long trips, cold, snowy roads, elevation gain, need a cargo box, highway speed, inadequate home and destination charging) AND STILL the biggest repercussion is a short charge stop on the way home. Understand every ones expectations are different but that's a win in my book.

Serious question, was the seating inadequate in R1T the reason for choosing the S? Sounds like if you only had 4 passengers, maybe 5 if smaller kids, the R1T would do this trip perfectly for you without the need for roof box.

On a side note is it weird that I find myself living vicariously through @jjswan33 adventurist posts on an online automotive forum board?

 

[webfootdawg]

I haven't ventured to Meadows yet this year, but a friend of mine has an R1T with 20" ATs. He made multiple trips last season. Lives in SW Portland. I've asked him about his power use on his trips, he generally leaves at around 90%+ and can return home with around ~30%. Route is via 26.

 

[Fred6v]

I agree, all other things being equal, speed IS the mileage killer. I traded in a Toyota FJ for my R1T. I had an RTT mounted on a flat roof rack with a front fairing attached. With that setup, I saw no significant hit to my mileage, as long as I didn’t exceed 70 mph. Above that, forget about it. So, a fairing may help some. I’m in the process of mounting that same RTT on my R1T. It will be mounted on a 19” tall bed rack and just barely clear the roof spoiler, behind the antenna fin. I’m trying to keep it as low as possible to minimize the mileage hit. We’ll see. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

About heading into the mountains to ski, what goes up must come down. I drove up to my favorite ski area (Kirkwood) the other day, climbing about 3500’ in 37 miles. The energy consumption going up was terrible, below 1.3 miles/kWh. However, by the time I got back home, I was back to about normal for this chilly time of the year. I averaged about 1.95 miles/kWh - for the entire trip, on 20” Blizzacks. I have made lots of round up into and over the Sierras. I’ve learned not to panic when I see those miles disappearing on the way up. For me, it seems to magically, mostly reappear on the way down.

I’ve found that warming up the battery and the interior of the vehicle, with shore power, prior to heading out, really helps maximize range. It’s said that a battery conditioning feature will be coming soon. That will basically do what I already do manually.

Some great advice & info here. I also have a RTT (GFC Ultra). Can you provide a link to the fairing you purchased?

 

[jjswan33]

On a side note is it weird that I find myself living vicariously through @jjswan33 adventurist posts on an online automotive forum board?

Enjoy. Not the aforementioned MHM but still Mt Hood from Sunday

 

[Singletracker]

Some great advice & info here. I also have a RTT (GFC Ultra). Can you provide a link to the fairing you purchased?

Actually, the fairing was built into the after market roof rack that I had on my FJ. I have not completed the RTT setup on my R1T, as yet. I have the rack on, but I still have to mount the RTT. It’s winter and snowing, so I’m moving slowly on the tent. If I have to mount a fairing on my R1T, I‘m not at all sure how I would do that, as there are not obvious mounting points with my anticipated setup. Hopefully, range impact will be minimal.

 

[KootenayEV]

@Sethsak 2 cents from another random internet opinion:
Optimist in me would say... you have a multitude of factors working against you (frequent long trips, cold, snowy roads, elevation gain, need a cargo box, highway speed, inadequate home and destination charging) AND STILL the biggest repercussion is a short charge stop on the way home. Understand every ones expectations are different but that's a win in my book.

Serious question, was the seating inadequate in R1T the reason for choosing the S? Sounds like if you only had 4 passengers, maybe 5 if smaller kids, the R1T would do this trip perfectly for you without the need for roof box.

On a side note is it weird that I find myself living vicariously through @jjswan33 adventurist posts on an online automotive forum board?

Wouldn't necessarily negate the need for a roof box in an R1T, since the box is slightly too short to accommodate many skis on the diagonal (and almost none straight). In my case, I absolutely need a ski box on my R1T, whereas in the R1S I could throw my ski bag inside the vehicle (but we bought the truck for other reasons; namely transporting dirty bikes on travel trailer trips).

 

[johnmcgrann]

True dat.

Folks like the OP, me and several others who've posted on this thread need to use a roof top carrier on their vehicles, EV or ICE. Winter use of the R1S means limited range under all conditions, with or without a roof box, and not just in the more extreme conditions that the OP described. While it looks like the R1S is a solid vehicle for much winter recreational use, that is not universally so.

If your use case involves driving longer distances in winter with a cargo box on your vehicle, the downside for an EV like the R1S - shortened range requiring frequent charging - may have to mean that "it's acceptable to say 'it's not worth it'". A robust and well-distributed charging network would largely mitigate that and while we will get there, we ain't there yet.

Folks like me now have to decide if it's a good bet that will happen sooner rather than later and make our EV decison accordingly.

Where are you traveling to from SE Pennsylvania? I'll assume New England ski country, if I'm wrong about that you can mostly disregard...

I'm in Lancaster and drove my R1T for two ski trips to Vermont last winter, and am about to leave for a similar trip this weekend and again in three weeks. I learned *a lot* on both prior trips, and had one close call where I encountered some novice unexpected performance hits due to cold and elevation (no rooftop box, though). I lost about an hour of skiing while I backtracked to a fast charger so that I didn't have an uglier situation at the end of the day, but nothing worse than that.

What I would tell you is that in the northeast, while it's not ideal, it is manageable, and it looks like it's getting better. There are charging options along the way as long as you plan ahead. And on the latest RAN map, there are more options coming from Rivian (Newburgh NY, Holyoke MA, Brattleboro VT and Lebanon NH) - these will make a nice "spine" of Rivian charging almost to Maine. Sometimes finding reliable charging at the final destination is dicey, and it's hit or miss if you can plug in at the resorts.

In another reply someone made the point that, if it's not for you, then yep, it's not for you and better to figure that out before you own an EV. But I'll tell you from my experience, with a modest amount of advance planning you can do this with relative ease in this region, so don't get discouraged by some of the other experiences described in this thread.

 

[runwithscissors]

Did you know all this before you bought your truck? I can understand if not, I was approached by someone today, she told me she didn't realize how much range gets hit from the cold weather in her EV.

EVs aren't for everyone and if I was skiing I wouldn't want to be worrying about charging either.

Yes, I was aware of it all prior to and was speaking more to the masses of people they are trying to convince to go EV. I still have a few ICE vehicles and enjoy driving the R1S locally but would never trust it on a trip where there is only 1 - EA station with 4 chargers and nothing else around. I just think it's early tech that will be leapfrogged here in a 3-5 years time. Wish I could've just leased it and handed it back to them in 3 years when it will be undoubtedly better. Early pricing and the IRA rebate made it worth it for a first EV to me. If I didn't get that "deal" then I would've just bought or leased a diesel Tahoe and revisited Rivian or competitors in a few years. I know a lot of people are here because it's EV or nothing, I'm not one of those people and understand why many people are apprehensive to switch.

 

[prism7118]

Echoing others, you really would have been fine to go back down the mountain without charging if you drove slower and through Sandy instead. The route with the fewest miles is almost always better in an EV. Sandy also has an EA charging stop if you are really worried, but going down from Mt. Hood back to Portland uses much less energy than going up. Additionally, going through Sandy will force you to drive slower which will increase range by a fair amount, especially if you were going 75mph in the gorge on the way up.

For example, I drove an ID4 to Trillium Lake from Portland when the temp was in the 30s and snowing and the car used 34% battery on the way up but only 14% on the way back down. Also did the same drive in an e-Tron and it used 40% on the way up and 19% on the way back down (both times through Sandy).

The one variable yesterday was that the wind was crazy, but if you had a headwind on the way up, you'd likely have a tailwind on the way back down. So if you used 60% on the way up going through the gorge, I'm fairly confident you'd use less than 30% on the way back down if you go through Sandy.

I think next time you should charge to 100%, drive on highway 26 through Sandy and you'll be fine. I don't think you'd even have to use conserve mode to be honest, but you could to make yourself feel better.

 

[Yossarian]

Where are you traveling to from SE Pennsylvania? I'll assume New England ski country, if I'm wrong about that you can mostly disregard...

I'm in Lancaster and drove my R1T for two ski trips to Vermont last winter, and am about to leave for a similar trip this weekend and again in three weeks. I learned *a lot* on both prior trips, and had one close call where I encountered some novice unexpected performance hits due to cold and elevation (no rooftop box, though). I lost about an hour of skiing while I backtracked to a fast charger so that I didn't have an uglier situation at the end of the day, but nothing worse than that.

What I would tell you is that in the northeast, while it's not ideal, it is manageable, and it looks like it's getting better. There are charging options along the way as long as you plan ahead. And on the latest RAN map, there are more options coming from Rivian (Newburgh NY, Holyoke MA, Brattleboro VT and Lebanon NH) - these will make a nice "spine" of Rivian charging almost to Maine. Sometimes finding reliable charging at the final destination is dicey, and it's hit or miss if you can plug in at the resorts.

In another reply someone made the point that, if it's not for you, then yep, it's not for you and better to figure that out before you own an EV. But I'll tell you from my experience, with a modest amount of advance planning you can do this with relative ease in this region, so don't get discouraged by some of the other experiences described in this thread.

I was really referring to my annual trip out west from Delco, usually to the Wasatch but occasionally to more remote places in MT, WY and even beyond. Apologies for not making that clear.

I'm in Delco and if my ski travel was to New England or even Quebec, there would not be any doubt about the R1S being capable of supporting the trip. Even the drives west to the Rockies are not all that daunting; with good planning, the R1S could likely handle it, even with the charging desserts of the heartland and some parts of the mountain west.

As someone who's done that kind of trip fairly often, I see the issue as the wild card, uncontrollable events like extremely cold temps and headwinds that are common in winter cross-country travel. Things like a top box certainly don't help range, but at least that can be taken into account in your route planning. Planning for wild card events is much tougher, or at least it seems that way to me.

I suppose you could assume very low efficiency, say 0.75 mi/kWh in your route plan, but if you use 80/20 SOC parameters, you're looking at perhaps 80kWh of capacity, meaning charging stops every 60 miles. You may not actually need to charge that frequently, but I don't think it's even possible in many parts of the country if you it turns out that you need to. And of course, stopping so frequently would add days to your travel. All of this goes away when the charging infrastructure improves.

Apologies to the OP for the thread detour hijack. We now can return to the actual subject of the thread . . .

 

[jjswan33]

I was really referring to my annual trip out west from Delco, usually to the Wasatch but occasionally to more remote places in MT, WY and even beyond. Apologies for not making that clear.

I'm in Delco and if my ski travel was to New England or even Quebec, there would not be any doubt about the R1S being capable of supporting the trip. Even the drives west to the Rockies are not all that daunting; with good planning, the R1S could likely handle it, even with the charging desserts of the heartland and some parts of the mountain west.

As someone who's done that kind of trip fairly often, I see the issue as the wild card, uncontrollable events like extremely cold temps and headwinds that are common in winter cross-country travel. Things like a top box certainly don't help range, but at least that can be taken into account in your route planning. Planning for wild card events is much tougher, or at least it seems that way to me.

I suppose you could assume very low efficiency, say 0.75 mi/kWh in your route plan, but if you use 80/20 SOC parameters, you're looking at perhaps 80kWh of capacity, meaning charging stops every 60 miles. You may not actually need to charge that frequently, but I don't think it's even possible in many parts of the country if you it turns out that you need to. And of course, stopping so frequently would add days to your travel. All of this goes away when the charging infrastructure improves.

Apologies to the OP for the thread detour hijack. We now can return to the actual subject of the thread . . .

FWIW even with my camper and Nokian Hakka winter 34" tires I am averaging above 1.5 mi/kWh, in the worst case scenario I doubt you would ever drop below 1.2 mi/kWh and that could likely be resolved by slowing down.

I do understand your apprehension, in summer 2022 traveling through MT in the northern part of the country was a fever dream. Even in summer 2023 when I did it there was one or two chargers that were make or break. Places in MT and WY are going to be challenging for a couple years I suspect, especially in winter, even with Tesla charger access when that happens.

 

[Tomgriff]

This has been an interesting, and in some sense, eye-opening discussion for me.

I won't bore everyone with the mundane details as to why, but like the OP, I have a top box that is essential for travel to ski country. The distances I need to cover are much greater that that of the OP however. What I'm seeing posted in the Rivian forums lately, and particularly the comments in this thread, gives me substantial pause about my decision to go to an EV at this juncture.

I planned to replace my Telluride with the R1S, and thought I had a reasonable understanding of the challenges that going EV meant. For example, I put a great deal of effort into trip planning with the Telluride, and thought that the additional effort that the R1S will require would be manageable. And and as retiree, I don't really face many time constraints in traveling. Even so, it's looking more and more that my thinking may be overly optimistic.

Fortuately, any Rivian delivery is at least a few months in the future, and so no immediate decision is necessary. I will use the time to carefully contemplate whether an EV this year the right choice, or if waiting another couple of years would be the better option.

I've gone all EVs at our house, no worries for me. I've driven about 750 miles in a single day and charging only an extra 30 minutes, which isn't a big deal to me. While waiting I caught up on email, etc. But I combine charging stops with eating, bathroom and buying coffee. I also understand the charging curve; how much range I will get for the given wx, temps and speed; avoid charging when the speed starts to drop; am comfortable getting to a charger with 5-10% battery left; check plugshare to make sure chargers I plan to use are working properly; and, only charge as I much as I need to get to the next charger. I made another 7 trips of 300-500 miles in a single day. I find that the R1S is done charging before I'm done eating. My bladder is also often ready to stop before I need to charge. I've had very good luck with chargers working and delivering the required power. I have had one time where a charger was full and ended up driving to a charger about 4 miles away instead and I had another instance where a 350 kW charger was only delivering 100 kW. However, the are some rural areas that I wouldn't go because there aren't enough fast chargers. Anywhere along the interstates seem to be fine (I'm sure there are some exceptions in some parts of the country). People tend to post more often on the negative experiences than positive, which doesn't invalidate the negative experiences, but problems are going to be over represented on forum.

I love the R1S and have been very happy with it, wouldn't trade it, but it isn't for everyone and requires extra planning for new routes.

 

[Tbirdjeff]

Great article - and this is precisely why I put X-Ice Michelin's on my 22's and it's been an absolute beast in the snow!

Just went through option after option on my 22s. Either buy new full 20” setup (and nearly all wheels had the wrong offset so only Rivian’s own 20s seemed viable) and the options of EV/load/ diameter were so limited. Alll Nokian sold out so only option was x-ice.

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