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Manchin returns to the negotiating table

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jjswan33

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As far as Climate Change, IMO, I believe most individuals would rather not cause the Earth harm and do their part, regardless of party affiliation.
That's ok we can end it here and I agree mostly with your statement that individuals would rather not cause the earth harm but the fact is that many corporations prioritize profits over doing the right thing in regards to pollution and climate change and sadly in my opinion one party caters to those profits in how they legislate.
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p3ck

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That's ok we can end it here and I agree mostly with your statement that individuals would rather not cause the earth harm but the fact is that many corporations prioritize profits over doing the right thing in regards to pollution and climate change and sadly in my opinion one party caters to those profits in how they legislate.
It is an interesting problem to tackle. By nature we tend to only look at immediate affects (effects?) and ignore long term ones. But the true cost of a product should include both because we all pay for it eventually.

I dislike regulations but I see no other way to hold everyone to the same standards. Even if 8 out of 10 companies act morally you only need one or two to put profit ahead to undercut the others. Eventually everyone will descend to the same low standards or go out of business. Especially if they are a public company where the stake holders will demand it.

These are just my current opinions and I hope I don't upset anyone. I try and live a good life and listen to others point of view.

Wow - Happy Monday. :)
 

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That's ok we can end it here and I agree mostly with your statement that individuals would rather not cause the earth harm but the fact is that many corporations prioritize profits over doing the right thing in regards to pollution and climate change and sadly in my opinion one party caters to those profits in how they legislate.
Firstly I took @cc84 statement that the 2020 election was different in the context that mail in voting, by default without requesting absentee ballot, changes voting accessibility which may favor one parties base over another, not it was rigged. This would give less credibility to your statement that one party was able to gain more moderate/ independent votes to secure the win (maybe one parties base just had easier accessibility).
Secondly I know of no peer reviewed studies that show one parties policies are more eco friendly than some others. It could be that overly stringent environmental policies causes companies to do more business in underdeveloped countries with almost no environmental controls with the net effect being more destruction. at any rate this forum is supposed to be free of politics.
Lastly, for me EV's are already a better choice all things considered without need for government incentive. I do not plan on buying another ice vehicle ever. I can't wait until EV's are the obvious choice for everybody's use case without government incentive.
 

r1t_kev

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FWIW, if there's no EV credit, I'm not buying an R1T - maybe a different EV, but not a Rivian, sadly.
 

jjswan33

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Firstly I took @cc84 statement that the 2020 election was different in the context that mail in voting, by default without requesting absentee ballot, changes voting accessibility which may favor one parties base over another, not it was rigged. This would give less credibility to your statement that one party was able to gain more moderate/ independent votes to secure the win (maybe one parties base just had easier accessibility).
Everyone within a given district/state would/did have the same rights and access to mail in voting, etc. By itself that shouldn’t favor one party over the other, now if one party is going to tell voters not to vote by mail, that is a choice in strategy they made. On the other hand policies requiring special IDs, closing of polling places, limiting of voting hours are purely meant to restrict access and make it harder vote.

Furthermore nothing at all wrong with mail in voting, all I have to do is be registered and a ballot comes every time. Fill it out, put a stamp on it, sign the envelope and mail it back, done! Been like that for years here, simple.


Secondly I know of no peer reviewed studies that show one parties policies are more eco friendly than some others. It could be that overly stringent environmental policies causes companies to do more business in underdeveloped countries with almost no environmental controls with the net effect being more destruction. at any rate this forum is supposed to be free of politics.
I don’t need a peer reviewed study, I just need to look at the platform of the different parties.

Party 1: Global warming is a myth so drill baby drill
Party 2: Global warming is a threat to our economy, national security and more so we should do something about it
 

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FWIW, if there's no EV credit, I'm not buying an R1T - maybe a different EV, but not a Rivian, sadly.
This brings up a good question. How many here agree? I had thought about this quite a bit myself and decided I would buy even without it, but I’ll admit it is helpful. This is by far the most expensive vehicle I have ever purchased and even though I can afford it, it’s a big leap for me. Getting a $2500 state credit and the $7500 federal credit would make it easier.
 

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This brings up a good question. How many here agree? I had thought about this quite a bit myself and decided I would buy even without it, but I’ll admit it is helpful. This is by far the most expensive vehicle I have ever purchased and even though I can afford it, it’s a big leap for me. Getting a $2500 state credit and the $7500 federal credit would make it easier.
For what it’s worth I will do it with or without, however I do hope to get it. The challenge for me in getting the $7500 is that we generally do not have a tax liability that I could apply it to. So for me the timing of when I receive the truck will be important to make it count. I’ll need to modify my withholdings so that I actually do have a liability of that size in time.
 

r1t_kev

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From a personal standpoint, with my other financial commitments, an R1T is on the cusp of being irresponsible; I say that as a bit of a fiscal conservative. I'm not one to be frivolous, however I am willing to spend money to have something I really want; material, experiential or both as is the case with an R1T. Say what you will about value prop, but $75k (as mine is spec'd) is a lot of money for a depreciating asset that doesn't make me money.

The $7500 incentive is the crux for me.
 
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Trandall

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For what it’s worth I will do it with or without, however I do hope to get it. The challenge for me in getting the $7500 is that we generally do not have a tax liability that I could apply it to. So for me the timing of when I receive the truck will be important to make it count. I’ll need to modify my withholdings so that I actually do have a liability of that size in time.
Sounds like you're confusing tax liability with tax refund. if you (your household if filing jointly) pay a total of $10,000 federal throughout the year via payroll deductions then after filing taxed get a $2,000 refund your tax liability for the year was $8,000. In this case you could claim the entire credit. You can preemptively take it by reducing your payroll deductions by 7500/# of pay periods or take it lump some at the end when filing in which case your refund in my hypothetical $2,000+ $7,500= $9,500. I guess technically you could do a combination of the two.
Some people also confuse tax credit with tax deduction, the latter reduces your taxable income and would not be as beneficial in this case.
 

messinator

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Personally, I am surprised at the seemingly majority of people who are looking to buy an $80,000 car but don't exceed the 250k income cap. The Washington state match cuts me out and IIRC the BBB still has the same limit.
 

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SANZC02

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Personally, I am surprised at the seemingly majority of people who are looking to buy an $80,000 car but don't exceed the 250k income cap. The Washington state match cuts me out and IIRC the BBB still has the same limit.
I do not think the current tax credit has an income limit. That comes into play with the new bills they are debating but, if they do not go anywhere I think the current one stays in place.

I’m not going to worry about it until I get the vehicles, no one knows what it might look like then.
 

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Personally, I am surprised at the seemingly majority of people who are looking to buy an $80,000 car but don't exceed the 250k income cap. The Washington state match cuts me out and IIRC the BBB still has the same limit.
What WA State match?
 

kanundrum

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Am I to understand that currently on a Federal Level the $7500 is still applicable as nothing has changed yet? Haven't read or navigated any new language but I still see the old language is applicable.
 

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Am I to understand that currently on a Federal Level the $7500 is still applicable as nothing has changed yet? Haven't read or navigated any new language but I still see the old language is applicable.
Correct. No change yet. I believe Manchin is no longer at the negotiating table. The last I heard, they are going to try and break BBB into smaller bills and see what they can get passed individually.
 

kanundrum

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Correct. No change yet. I believe Manchin is no longer at the negotiating table. The last I heard, they are going to try and break BBB into smaller bills and see what they can get passed individually.

Chances are nothing will take place this year or I don't see it taking place this year which is fine with me haha.
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