Experience shopping for an EV9 vs R1S - Update

[tobidogger]

The direct to consumer model has a lot of advantages, and so does standard pricing versus negotiating with a dealership. But having the ability to get trade-in quotes, and some small room for negotiation has a lot of benefits as well. I really want the R1S but my wife likes both the cars for different reasons. It's going to be a tough sell at the moment to justify the difference in price.

I have never been so abused to hand over 120 grand. Car sales people are some of the most hated people on earth, I'm aware. However my Jaguar and Audi dealers have never treated me like I was buying a book on Amazon, failed to call me back, and caused me to need to lose my cool. Rivian needs to get its **** together because it seems to have a lot of idiots working for it.

I have loved - LOVED - to tell the story of my "guide", which is just some Gen Z/Mil nonsense for car sales person. He seemed to not know what the word guide means. He was genuinely confused as to who would explain the processes to me. I kept saying, "perhaps a guide?" It would seem my snark was lost on him.

I have never seen the inside of my Jaguar / Audi dealerships. The cars are picked up and dropped off for their annual service and they were -40% the cost of the Canyonero. Rivian needs to realize this is a luxury/niche truck and get it together. People like me can buy most any car (well to a certain point) and the DTC can be a time saver...if done with the context in mind. That context is not buying a t-shirt at GAP.

Why do I mention this? Because Kia, Porsche, VW, etc... are not stupid. They will be there fast enough with Rivian-like products. Heck the Jeep EV's are looking cool...and as much as I dislike "let me talk to my manager" BS, at least I know what to expect and they are going to act accordingly. There is something to be said about the car dealer model - the owner of my local Porsche dealership can be found around town...he would be warned not to piss his clientele off since he sees us at the bagel shop. The chance of me being in Normal or Irvine are 0%.

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[Dark-Fx]

have loved - LOVED - to tell the story of my "guide", which is just some Gen Z/Mil nonsense for car sales person. He seemed to not know what the word guide means.

OK Boomer

 

[tobidogger]

OK Boomer

I don't even have boomer parents...thanks for playing.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I don't even have boomer parents...thanks for playing.

You act like one though my friend. Trust fund?

 

[manitou202]

Not to blow up this thread again, but we did finally make a decision.

We ordered an R1S dual motor performance, in Limestone with Ocean Coast / Black wood interior, large pack, and 22" black wheels. It is scheduled to be delivered March 29th.

Rivian still haven't provided a trade-in for our Mercedes after two days, but I have another offer that is acceptable from a third party.

We will be leasing the R1S. Super excited!

 

[usofrob]

Detailed review of the EV9. Here it is starting at comparing price with other 3 row EVs, then straight into a direct comparison to the R1S:

 

[hroussel]

Just want to add a Canadian perspective here on the pricing comparison.

The cheapest R1S I can configure (dual motor, standard battery) with a choice of paint and interior comes to $84000 CAD. And this is after I apply my 29% voucher.

I can configure a nice EV9 Land with Premium package for $68000. This is the price after the applicable rebates, federal and provincial, which the R1S is not entitled to.

So 16 grands more for the R1S.

Remains to be seen whether dealer markups will apply. I might find out more in 3 weeks at the Montreal Electric Vehicle show. We'll definitely do a test drive.

 

[KootenayEV]

Just want to add a Canadian perspective here on the pricing comparison.

The cheapest R1S I can configure (dual motor, standard battery) with a choice of paint and interior comes to $84000 CAD. And this is after I apply my 29% voucher.

I can configure a nice EV9 Land with Premium package for $68000. This is the price after the applicable rebates, federal and provincial, which the R1S is not entitled to.

So 16 grands more for the R1S.

Remains to be seen whether dealer markups will apply. I might find out more in 3 weeks at the Montreal Electric Vehicle show. We'll definitely do a test drive.

Seems like Hyundai subsidizes bringing the car to our market as compared to the US - I wonder how that is?

 

[Wing]

Most manufacturers actually do not charge exchange rate as there are many factors to consider based on the country other than dollar value.

I don't know about now, but the Ioniq5 was the same price in CDN and USD for the first few years! Yes basically canada was getting a 35% discount!

Rivian on the other hand has chosen to charge Canada MORE than exchange rate, I feel the excitement in Canada will die off quickly as the R1S quad is now $150k! There are not many $150k SUVs available to purchase in Canada and not many buyers outside of Vancouver and GTA

 

[hroussel]

Most manufacturers actually do not charge exchange rate as there are many factors to consider based on the country other than dollar value.

I don't know about now, but the Ioniq5 was the same price in CDN and USD for the first few years! Yes basically canada was getting a 35% discount!

Rivian on the other hand has chosen to charge Canada MORE than exchange rate, I feel the excitement in Canada will die off quickly as the R1S quad is now $150k! There are not many $150k SUVs available to purchase in Canada and not many buyers outside of Vancouver and GTA

You can add Tesla and Lucid as the manufacturers that use something like the exchange rate (plus or minus) to set the Canadian pricing.

Just about everybody else has way more reasonable pricing for our market. Just look at the Silverado RST. $105k in the US, $122k in Canada.

Totally agree with you that a $150k SUV won't get many buyers here. Or a $138k pickup (that's my R1T build, before my 29% voucher).

 

[Wing]

Right if the silverado is less than an R1T the choice I think will be easy.

 

[manitou202]

We took delivery last Friday. Definitely made the right choice. Such an amazing SUV.

EV9 is still a good deal and a nice option for something cheaper.

When we took delivery, the Denver center had about 400 vehicles they were getting ready to deliver. They did 35 deliveries on Friday and were doing another 42 on Saturday. Contrast that with the Kia dealer we were going to buy the EV9 from, hasn't sold a single inventory EV9 GT-line in the past month. The EV9 we were negotiating on has been available for over 45 days now.

Seems like Kia has a perception issue, and many aren't willing to pay the high price for a Kia, even if it's justified.

 

[White Shadow]

Wow, the EV9 seems to be selling quite well. And they are supposed to be moving production to Georgia to get the incentive package as well.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

This situation won't apply to everyone, but I want to highlight one of the big challenges Rivian faces versus the competition with their current sales model.

We are looking to trade-in our Mercedes SUV and have narrowed down our search to the Kia EV9 or the Rivian R1S. On paper, an entry level R1S looks to be similar in price to the EV9, but the reality is a much different story.

Here are some of the details so far:

Kia EV9 GT-line
Price $77,395 (fully loaded)

Rivian R1S Ideal Spec (dual motor, standard+ pack, Limestone, 22" wheels, Ocean Coast)
Price: $85,250

Difference = $7,855

At first the difference in price isn't huge, and I would 100% buy the R1S over the EV9 for an $8k difference. However the gap gets a lot bigger quickly. Here is what the numbers look like when I factor in sales tax, tax credit, trade-in value, and discounts. The are approximate numbers.

Kia EV9
OEM Discount: $3750
Trade-in: $75,000
Sales Tax (9.03%): MSPR $77,395 - Discount $3750 - Trade-in $75,000 = $0 sales tax
Colorado Tax Credit (applies to $80k MSRP or less): $5000
Final EV9 Price: $68,645

Rivian R1S
OEM Discount: $0
Trade-in (through Rivian): Unknown from Rivian, must place $1000 deposit to get trade-in quote
Trade-in third party (Best so far is Carvana): $72,000
Sales Tax (9.03): MSRP $85,250 - Discount $0 - Trade-in (assuming third party trade-in) $0 = $7698
Colorado Tax Credit: $0
Final R1S Price: $95,948 (assumes trading in vehicle to Carvana with no sales tax credit, and $3000 less for trade-in)

Difference: $27,303

A couple of considerations. I don't know what the trade-in offer will be from Rivian, and that could have a big impact especially on the sales tax credit. They really need a way to get a trade-in quote without paying $1000 deposit. Unless I'm willing to take a risk on the $1000, I have to assume I will get a low ball offer from Rivian and will need to sell the car third party.

I could remove several options from the R1S to get the MSRP under $80k which would give me the $5000 Colorado tax credit. In that situation the final difference drops to $16,306.

Rivian does offer lease rates that are very competitive compared to Kia's lease rates, so that is still an option and will likely be our path if we go with the R1S. If I lease I get access to the $7500 federal tax credit (from both Rivian or Kia) but then I lose the sales tax credit. So if I buy out the lease I need to pay 9.03% sales tax on the buyout price.

The direct to consumer model has a lot of advantages, and so does standard pricing versus negotiating with a dealership. But having the ability to get trade-in quotes, and some small room for negotiation has a lot of benefits as well. I really want the R1S but my wife likes both the cars for different reasons. It's going to be a tough sell at the moment to justify the difference in price.

Car shopping is no joke. It’s easy to get bogged down in the minutia. Have you test driven both vehicles? I’ve watched and read reviews of both vehicles and while Kia has come a long way with their EVs I wouldn’t think the EV9 would match the luxury of the R1S. Since you’re coming from a Mercedes and you already have an R1T I’m assuming that would matter to you.

Personally I’d wait until the reengineered R1S comes out in late summer, if that’s the re-release time frame. Something tells me Rivian will be making every effort to get the cost of the R1 lineup down, especially in regard to the EV tax rebate. Remember there are income restrictions on that deal, but not when you lease either vehicle.

UPDATE: I see where you doubled down on Rivian with the R1S. Nice! Such a beautiful vehicle. Since you already have an R1T and know what to expect I’m sure you’ll be happy with your purchase. Congrats!

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