Do I really need the Max Pack?

mkhuffman

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For example if the rolling load is 80 Wh/mi and the drag load 150 but the latter increases to 165 if we speed up 10 mph it's pretty clear what is happening but to express the rolling load as 12.5 mi/kWh and the drag load as 6.6666 mi/kWh so that the total economy is 4.35 mi/kWh is, to my way of thinking much less clear.
Thanks, this example has helped me see the advantages to using Wh/mi. BTW - when I do route planning for my future Mustang Mach-E (it is on order), ABRP uses mi/kWh. Maybe that is because Ford uses it in the MME. You probably see Wh/mi when you use ABRP because that is what Tesla uses.

Back to one of your previous posts, I understand why you say battery size is irrelevant, because really the rated range is only what is relevant. However, when we are trying to figure out what we think the highway range of the R1T will be, it is helpful to know the battery capacity because it allows you to get a better idea regarding the efficiency. One day, ONE DAY, Rivian will reveal enough detail so we will know, but for now, we can only guess. What does "400+" mean? 405? 425? I suspect closer to 405, but that is only a guess based on their previously reported battery size.





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Mjhirsch78

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can you elaborate on "how they are charged" a bit more...meaning what is the best way to have longevity in these batteries? I may ask Rivian that question....when I talked with RJ back in 2019 he said the batteries would outlast the vehicle...I tend to keep vehicles longer than 10 years (wink)!

BTW thank you for your response!
The basics from a layman:
1. Going under 10% frequently or sitting at 100% degrades the battery faster.
2. Supercharging (level 3 fast charging) also degrades the battery faster.

The best plan, as I understand, is stay between 15-80% and charge slower except for road trips for the slowest degradation.

time for the engineers to clean up my mess heh 😎
 

skyote

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The basics from a layman:
1. Going under 10% frequently or sitting at 100% degrades the battery faster.
2. Supercharging (level 3 fast charging) also degrades the battery faster.

The best plan, as I understand, is stay between 15-80% and charge slower except for road trips for the slowest degradation.

time for the engineers to clean up my mess heh 😎
Solid summary. Another thing to note is that Rivian supposedly has really good battery management IP, and that the vehicles will learn your driving & usage patterns and then recommend ways to maximize battery health based on your specific usage.

That's all from previous statements & in theory, but should be pretty interesting to see how it's implemented.
 

DuckTruck

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Solid summary. Another thing to note is that Rivian supposedly has really good battery management IP, and that the vehicles will learn your driving & usage patterns and then recommend ways to maximize battery health based on your specific usage.

That's all from previous statements & in theory, but should be pretty interesting to see how it's implemented.
Skyote,

For what it's worth, with my ELR, which is identical in battery & management system to the Volt, Cadillac advised me to leave it plugged in at all times and the Battery Management System will take care of it. Every year, it sits and happily takes up half of my garage, plugged-in for six months (during the winter) and the range has yet to degrade measurably after 5 years.

As mine turns out to be a simple "halo car" for Cadillac, I have to believe Rivian is taking monstrous measures to make sure the batteries degrade as little as possible. As you've mentioned before, that 30% degradation after so many years will likely only come into play with real outliers and batteries that have been abused by their owners. With the tracking information Rivian will have available, they'll be able to see any misuse/abuse as it's happening and will likely communicate with the vehicle and the owner to adjust any bad habits before real damage can be done.

It's always made sense to me that DCFC charging will be tough on batteries, but will using 110 or 220 charging to slowly top, or "fill" the battery to 100% truly hurt the battery? I'm no engineer and I know there are people here that will know the answer. I'd like to be able to to maintain my routine of simply plugging in my vehicle as soon as I pull in the garage in a "set-it-and-forget-it" fashion. If I'm driving it most every day, does anyone think that will be problematic for the battery by letting it slow charge to 100% every night?

I know Li batteries and their manufacturer's instructions can and do differ. My phone, tablet, laptop, e-bike, lawn tools, and car all have their own, different instructions for proper charging, but this one will be critical to get right. I trust Rivian will be clear about their thoughts, but I'm interested to hear from those of you with long-term, real-world EV experience.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and insights!
 

Smitty000

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I’ve been struggling to decide whether a 300+ mile range is enough, or if I really need to spend the extra $10k on the Max Pack. I started my EV journey with a VW e-Golf that had a 125 mile range. Then I recently bought a Chevy Bolt that over doubled that range to 259 miles. After a month in the Bolt, I’m finding that I haven’t found any driving situation leaving me wanting more range.
But part of me says the 400+ mile range of the Max Pack will help “future proof” the R1T I have a deposit on. As the battery degrades over time, it would still have enough range to do anything I may ask of it. My goal is to have the R1T as my forever vehicle. If I get the 300 mi pack, perhaps the cost of replacement will be inexpensive enough down the road that spending an extra $10k now doesn’t make sense.
Any thoughts from the collective to help with my decision?
I plan on the using the large pack LE R1T and a Delta Ecoflow pro for some range extending charging, boondock camping, and getting my trailer to burn less propane. It’s 3.6 kw but it’s a heavy duty generator with a solar recharge. Best of both worlds.
 

Dark-Fx

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Skyote,

For what it's worth, with my ELR, which is identical in battery & management system to the Volt, Cadillac advised me to leave it plugged in at all times and the Battery Management System will take care of it. Every year, it sits and happily takes up half of my garage, plugged-in for six months (during the winter) and the range has yet to degrade measurably after 5 years.

As mine turns out to be a simple "halo car" for Cadillac, I have to believe Rivian is taking monstrous measures to make sure the batteries degrade as little as possible. As you've mentioned before, that 30% degradation after so many years will likely only come into play with real outliers and batteries that have been abused by their owners. With the tracking information Rivian will have available, they'll be able to see any misuse/abuse as it's happening and will likely communicate with the vehicle and the owner to adjust any bad habits before real damage can be done.

It's always made sense to me that DCFC charging will be tough on batteries, but will using 110 or 220 charging to slowly top, or "fill" the battery to 100% truly hurt the battery? I'm no engineer and I know there are people here that will know the answer. I'd like to be able to to maintain my routine of simply plugging in my vehicle as soon as I pull in the garage in a "set-it-and-forget-it" fashion. If I'm driving it most every day, does anyone think that will be problematic for the battery by letting it slow charge to 100% every night?

I know Li batteries and their manufacturer's instructions can and do differ. My phone, tablet, laptop, e-bike, lawn tools, and car all have their own, different instructions for proper charging, but this one will be critical to get right. I trust Rivian will be clear about their thoughts, but I'm interested to hear from those of you with long-term, real-world EV experience.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and insights!
If 100% really and truly is the maximum rating of the battery, it isn't a good idea to charge to 100% often, and leaving it at that level for any period of time is definitely bad for it. I think Tesla is the only manufacturer that allows an actual 100% SoC at full charge, and they explicitly say not to charge to it unless you need it.

My Bolt will stop charging much above 96% of maximum, but if you are plugged in and have the car on, it will go higher. I've observed a bit over 97% after the latest recall. It was still adding energy before I had to depart but it slowed down to 2-3kW then.
 

DuckTruck

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If 100% really and truly is the maximum rating of the battery, it isn't a good idea to charge to 100% often, and leaving it at that level for any period of time is definitely bad for it. I think Tesla is the only manufacturer that allows an actual 100% SoC at full charge, and they explicitly say not to charge to it unless you need it.

My Bolt will stop charging much above 96% of maximum, but if you are plugged in and have the car on, it will go higher. I've observed a bit over 97% after the latest recall. It was still adding energy before I had to depart but it slowed down to 2-3kW then.
Dark-Fx,

Thank you for that. While I know the Volt and Bolt are different, it sounds like the BMS is similar. Even if left plugged in, the Volt/ELR BMS reportedly keeps it at a level short of 100%, while also heating and cooling as needed.

Thanks again for weighing in.
 

ajdelange

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BTW - when I do route planning for my future Mustang Mach-E (it is on order), ABRP uses mi/kWh. Maybe that is because Ford uses it in the MME. You probably see Wh/mi when you use ABRP because that is what Tesla uses.
Actually you have the choice of either. As the place you make the selection is where you accept or modify their 65 mph estimate I'm guessing that the default units are the ones in which the selected brand specifies rated consumption.

Back to one of your previous posts, I understand why you say battery size is irrelevant, because really the rated range is only what is relevant. However, when we are trying to figure out what we think the highway range of the R1T will be, it is helpful to know the battery capacity because it allows you to get a better idea regarding the efficiency. One day, ONE DAY, Rivian will reveal enough detail so we will know, but for now, we can only guess. What does "400+" mean? 405? 425? I suspect closer to 405, but that is only a guess based on their previously reported battery size.
They are never going to give us the detailed data we crave. We don't know how Rivian is going to do things so I can only state that Tesla marks the rated consumption on one of their displays so you can determine what that is. Programs like Tesla Fi tell you how many kWh you used on a given trip and how many miles the trip was. From this you can figure out how big the battery is and what the actual rared range is.
 

azbill

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For what it's worth, with my ELR, which is identical in battery & management system to the Volt, Cadillac advised me to leave it plugged in at all times and the Battery Management System will take care of it. Every year, it sits and happily takes up half of my garage, plugged-in for six months (during the winter) and the range has yet to degrade measurably after 5 years.
The ELR is likely the same as the Volt (I used to have one). The Volt battery charges to 80% and discharges to 20%, thus it is really only using 60% of the battery. They have that much buffer because those cars are always charged to 100% (indicated, not real) and then run to 0% (indicated) when the gas engine kicks in.

The Bolt has about a 5% buffer, I have one currently. It is 60KWH rated pack, but usable is 57KWH.
 

eemri

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I think I read through most of the posts on this thread and I don't think I saw any consideration of power needed while you're out-and-about camping. E.g., powering the kitchen, lights, other camping gear you might need.

I know this will be heavily dependent on what you might need power for and the draw of those devices. My thinking is that a larger pack would give me some more peace of mind at the camp site as well as, well, the extra range to get to the remote locations on rough terrain. But perhaps the comparable draw is so little that it's not worth factoring into the decision making.
 

SANZC02

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I think I read through most of the posts on this thread and I don't think I saw any consideration of power needed while you're out-and-about camping. E.g., powering the kitchen, lights, other camping gear you might need.

I know this will be heavily dependent on what you might need power for and the draw of those devices. My thinking is that a larger pack would give me some more peace of mind at the camp site as well as, well, the extra range to get to the remote locations on rough terrain. But perhaps the comparable draw is so little that it's not worth factoring into the decision making.
You are correct, it depends on what you are using. My guess is it is negligible.

I can give you an example. A fully charged 135KW battery, would power my entire house for over 8 days based on my average consumption of 14.13 KW per day.
 

BigE

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You are correct, it depends on what you are using. My guess is it is negligible.

I can give you an example. A fully charged 135KW battery, would power my entire house for over 8 days based on my average consumption of 14.13 KW per day.
14 kW is not a lot to run a house. But your correct, it should be negligible use at a camp site.
 
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I was told the whole skateboard has to be changed to replace the battery.

I will pay the new adopter tax upfront and get the max pack.
 
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You are correct, it depends on what you are using. My guess is it is negligible.

I can give you an example. A fully charged 135KW battery, would power my entire house for over 8 days based on my average consumption of 14.13 KW per day.
My Ethereum miners would like to have a talk with you ;)


I would love to get my consumption down to 14.13 KW per day.
 

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