Cold weather Kills the battery!

[Thedude]

Just figure half the range in very cold weather... It's not extract but good enough to get the idea.

It’s not that bad, especially if you started off with the truck charging for a warm battery.

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[Craigins]

Need to watch the winds.

Christmas day i drove 120 miles @70 mph with a 20 mph headwind. 16 degrees out. Got 1.4 mi/kWh.

2 days later, drove 360 miles @75 mph with a 15 mph tailwind, same 16 degree weather. Got 2 mi/kWh which is what I typically get on the trip.

The only time I see issues in cold is when I cold soak the vehicle, then range is halved.

 

[waitinginvain]

Craigins nailed it

n EV coming out of a warm garage will fare MUCH better than a car sitting outside at 0 degrees. I think this is one of the reasons person X swears it’s fine while person Y cites a 50% loss. Preconditioning helps but not as much as that toasty garage

and don’t get cocky if you have a garage since the vehicle may be sitting outside at your destination

 

[Yellow Buddy]

All BEV adopters are suffering from the cold weather range loss syndrome. And towing? Forget about it unless you enjoy subjecting yourself to frustration.

I‘ll bet a 2032 Rivian owner will laugh at how large, heavy and inefficient battery packs were 10-years ago. Major advancements are coming.

It’ll all come down to charging efficiency and speed, and not just from the charger but from the infrastructure as well

There’s no reason for us to carry around 135kWh battery packs if the infrastructure was good enough. It’s counterproductive to load these things up with that much weight.

I can make do with 200 miles of range if I could charge from 0-100% in 5 minutes. Heck, I can make due with 100 miles of range, if there was a wireless charging pad at every stoplight, stop sign, parking spot and highways would have charging zones every 50 miles or so. But that’s probably a level of investment I won’t see in my lifetime..

 

[cardad]

It’ll all come down to charging efficiency and speed, and not just from the charger but from the infrastructure as well

There’s no reason for us to carry around 135kWh battery packs if the infrastructure was good enough. It’s counterproductive to load these things up with that much weight.

I can make do with 200 miles of range if I could charge from 0-100% in 5 minutes. Heck, I can make due with 100 miles of range, if there was a wireless charging pad at every stoplight, stop sign, parking spot and highways would have charging zones every 50 miles or so. But that’s probably a level of investment I won’t see in my lifetime..

Well the infra and the battery tech should eventually converge in just the same way computers and connectivity speed caught up with each other in meaningful ways after 5 decades or so. So it might depend on what your limits are for this lifetime .

Quantumscape is now shipping solid state test batteries to EV manufacturers and Toyota seems to think they will be leading the way with solid state batteries within the next 8 years. So the 5 min 100 mile charge doesn’t seem too far off to me, especially for more efficient vehicle designs. The Aptera projects to have up to 1000 miles range and 40 mile/day solar charging so current tech should allow some to be untethered from the grid.

 

[mkhuffman]

There are two factors that impact range in cold temperatures: battery capacity and efficiency.

If the battery is cold, the chemical reactions are slower and battery capacity is effectively lower. So if the usable capacity is 125 kWh when the battery is warm, it could be 100 kWh (or lower) when cold, depending on how cold the battery is of course. The BMS will warm the battery during preconditioning, but of course the warming process needs energy, which reduces driving efficiency.

Besides preconditioning, I do not know when Rivian keeps the battery warm, so if you do not precondition, it is possible no additional warming of the pack occurs. This would mean only capacity is impacted, not efficiency. You could drive at the same efficiency with a cold pack, but because the capacity is reduced, have shorter range.

Full battery capacity requires the battery to be at around 70 F.

Efficiency is greatly impacted by interior climate control settings. If you like the interior of the truck warm, of course that will greatly reduce efficiency. If you leave from a warm garage, with the battery capacity close to normal, and you don't use the climate control heater, you will likely see the same efficiency and range as when it is warm outside. At least until you turn on the heat and the battery starts to cool off.

As the battery cools off, your available battery capacity will shrink but efficiency will stay the same, as long as you are not heating the cabin.

A 40-50% reduction in range in zero F temperatures is normal in a BEV. My Mach-E is EPA rated at 270 miles, which I can achieve in the summer. In the winter, I have seen 180 miles of range when it is below freezing outside. I use the heat, and I don't care because I can charge at home. When on a trip I keep interior temperatures lower and pre-condition when on L2. Also my garage is usually in the 60s even when it is very cold outside.

IMO, BEVs are not ready for the general public. Early adopters like us can deal with the challenges, but normal people (like my wife) have no patience for it. Cold weather range, poor highway range and poor charging infrastructure are big problems that normal people won't want to deal with. I admit, I am not normal.

 

[Lysdexic]

Sorry if I'm being repetitive with this data....... But I'm putting it on every thread about range loss in cold weather because I think this large data set is more helpful to people than single observations or anecdotal comments about the effect of temperature.

Cold weather significantly reduces range with EV's. More so on short trips than long trips. This dataset is representative of range/efficiency loss during a long road trip when the battery has had time to get up to operating temperature.

Bummer. Looks like my drives in -60F are out of the question.

 

[eddierunner]

Here's some interesting real world data for other EVs. Not enough data on Rivians yet. I'm not yet sure if Recurrent is any good but I recently added my vehicle because I like the idea of crowd sourced data.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

This test is also done on major European EVs every summer and winter: https://nye.naf.no/elbil/elbil-nytt/ev-range-and-charge-test

 

[GA_Rivian]

Is there anything one can do to reduce the effects of cold/wind on the battery in the R1T the way you can with a conventional radiator? We had -50 and I covered the grill of our subaru forester with cardboard, a common remedy in very cold weather.

 

[crashmtb]

Is there anything one can do to reduce the effects of cold/wind on the battery in the R1T the way you can with a conventional radiator? We had -50 and I covered the grill of our subaru forester with cardboard, a common remedy in very cold weather.

Rivian (and lots of ICE vehicles nowadays) uses active shutters over the radiator openings.

 

[Thedude]

Is there anything one can do to reduce the effects of cold/wind on the battery in the R1T the way you can with a conventional radiator? We had -50 and I covered the grill of our subaru forester with cardboard, a common remedy in very cold weather.

Keep it plugged in and charging until you leave. It’s just like a gas engine and loses a ton of efficiency while it warms up to operating temperature. Once the battery pack is warm you see a pretty normal mi/kWh rate.

 

[Cletts]

Keep it plugged in and charging until you leave. It’s just like a gas engine and loses a ton of efficiency while it warms up to operating temperature. Once the battery pack is warm you see a pretty normal mi/kWh rate.

If you are charged fully does the plug-in keep the batteries heated?

 

[WSea]

If you are charged fully does the plug-in keep the batteries heated?

No. I try to charge to 100 SOC right before departure on road trips. Be great if we could set charging to 100 at a specific time

 

[GA_Rivian]

Rivian (and lots of ICE vehicles nowadays) uses active shutters over the radiator openings.

What radiator? Is there a fluid cooling the battery?

 

[Lawrence-of-Blaine]

There are two factors that impact range in cold temperatures: battery capacity and efficiency.

If the battery is cold, the chemical reactions are slower and battery capacity is effectively lower. So if the usable capacity is 125 kWh when the battery is warm, it could be 100 kWh (or lower) when cold, depending on how cold the battery is of course. The BMS will warm the battery during preconditioning, but of course the warming process needs energy, which reduces driving efficiency.

Besides preconditioning, I do not know when Rivian keeps the battery warm, so if you do not precondition, it is possible no additional warming of the pack occurs. This would mean only capacity is impacted, not efficiency. You could drive at the same efficiency with a cold pack, but because the capacity is reduced, have shorter range.

Full battery capacity requires the battery to be at around 70 F.

Efficiency is greatly impacted by interior climate control settings. If you like the interior of the truck warm, of course that will greatly reduce efficiency. If you leave from a warm garage, with the battery capacity close to normal, and you don't use the climate control heater, you will likely see the same efficiency and range as when it is warm outside. At least until you turn on the heat and the battery starts to cool off.

As the battery cools off, your available battery capacity will shrink but efficiency will stay the same, as long as you are not heating the cabin.

A 40-50% reduction in range in zero F temperatures is normal in a BEV. My Mach-E is EPA rated at 270 miles, which I can achieve in the summer. In the winter, I have seen 180 miles of range when it is below freezing outside. I use the heat, and I don't care because I can charge at home. When on a trip I keep interior temperatures lower and pre-condition when on L2. Also my garage is usually in the 60s even when it is very cold outside.

IMO, BEVs are not ready for the general public. Early adopters like us can deal with the challenges, but normal people (like my wife) have no patience for it. Cold weather range, poor highway range and poor charging infrastructure are big problems that normal people won't want to deal with. I admit, I am not normal.

Excellent summation. BEV’s are a TOTALLY different beast in a true cold-weather climate.

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