Daily Mail - "Electric dreams in tatters as ANOTHER EV truck company (Bollinger) once worth $148M officially dies"

[Zoidz]

Daily Mail

Another electric truck company is dead.

Bollinger Motors — the Michigan EV startup once hyped for its boxy electric truck designs — has shut down operations, according to internal emails obtained by the Detroit Free Press. The company's human resources director told employees that November 21 was Bollinger's final day in business.

'We received word late last night that the day has arrived,' HR chief Helen Watson wrote. 'We are to officially close the doors of Bollinger Motors, effective today.'

It's the latest electric pickup truck company to fall under the weight of once-lofty expectations, insurmountable debt, and limited product practicality. Bollinger burst onto the scene in the late 2010s with its retro-styled, battery-powered B1 SUV and B2 truck, both priced over $120,000. But neither ever made it to production.

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[COdogman]

I remember being excited about it when they first arrived on the scene. I thought that pass through design was cool. They just never could get off the ground. Another reminder that manufacturing vehicles is a brutal business.

 

[Time2Roll]

I had my eye on Bollinger years ago as it would have been the first EV to be able to be towed 4-down behind an RV if they followed through with that promise.

Was thinking about that pass through yesterday as I was loading some 10' lumber into my R1S.

 

[Rade]

We're just waiting to hear what is going to happen with Lucid, too. That company keeps circling bankruptcy, the stock (LCID) has remained more or less flat. That said, we went to the Natick MA mall yesterday and visited the Lucid showroom there and got to see a Lucid AIR (at the NY International Auto Show, they had the vehicle cordoned off). The Lucid Air was quite impressive! It felt a little tighter than the R1S; quite a bit more refined. Might schedule a test drive after the holidays.

But listening to podcasts like Autoline Daily, you would be left to believe the company is on borrowed time, much like Bollinger or (the now defunct) Lordstown.

 

[sunydrm]

We're just waiting to hear what is going to happen with Lucid, too. That company keeps circling bankruptcy, the stock (LCID) has remained more or less flat. That said, we went to the Natick MA mall yesterday and visited the Lucid showroom there and got to see a Lucid AIR (at the NY International Auto Show, they had the vehicle cordoned off). The Lucid Air was quite impressive! It felt a little tighter than the R1S; quite a bit more refined. Might schedule a test drive after the holidays.

But listening to podcasts like Autoline Daily, you would be left to believe the company is on borrowed time, much like Bollinger or (the now defunct) Lordstown.

lucid is better off than rivian simply because they are funded by the saudis. They are launching a midsize lucid model to compete with model Y and R2

 

[Donald Stanfield]

This is no surprise to me. It's hard to survive as a car company if you never sell any cars.

 

[VSG]

Sun, May 20, 2018 at 7:29 PM


Hello VSG

Thank you for reserving your Bollinger B1 All-Electric, All-Wheel-Drive Sport Utility Truck.

We are excited about the overwhelming response we continue to receive about the truck and are now working diligently to bring it to production.

Later this year we'll be announcing the price for the B1. Soon after you'll be able to pre-order your 4-Door B1 with a down payment. And our goal is to get the truck rolling off the assembly line by the end of 2019.

The B1 will be manufactured with certification and compliance for road use in the United States and Canada. Following that, we will be looking at export to other countries in both right hand drive and left hand drive versions.

As a start-up automotive company we have a lot of hard work ahead of us. I can't thank you enough for all of the wonderful encouragement and comments you've sent us. It has meant the world to me and the team.

More info to come!

Thank you again,
Robert Bollinger
Bollinger Motors

That was before Rivian went public, and when Bollinger was floating a starting price of around $60k. A year and a half later they made the price official - $125,000. But at that point I had already seen a R1T (my LE was only $75k before tax credit) and I no longer wanted a B1.

The B1 had a range of only 200 miles and didn't even come with airbags (!). Bollinger stopped work on the B1 in January 2022 and never shipped a single B1 or B2 vehicle to customers. IMO Bollinger officially died the day the R1T started shipping.

Just another example of how Rivian survived and succeeded where others couldn't.

 

[DuoRivian]

We're just waiting to hear what is going to happen with Lucid, too. That company keeps circling bankruptcy, the stock (LCID) has remained more or less flat. That said, we went to the Natick MA mall yesterday and visited the Lucid showroom there and got to see a Lucid AIR (at the NY International Auto Show, they had the vehicle cordoned off). The Lucid Air was quite impressive! It felt a little tighter than the R1S; quite a bit more refined. Might schedule a test drive after the holidays.

But listening to podcasts like Autoline Daily, you would be left to believe the company is on borrowed time, much like Bollinger or (the now defunct) Lordstown.

The Gravity has been well received and when the new compact SUV Earth comes out in a years time they should be able to compete.

 

[RivAW]

We're just waiting to hear what is going to happen with Lucid, too. That company keeps circling bankruptcy, the stock (LCID) has remained more or less flat. That said, we went to the Natick MA mall yesterday and visited the Lucid showroom there and got to see a Lucid AIR (at the NY International Auto Show, they had the vehicle cordoned off). The Lucid Air was quite impressive! It felt a little tighter than the R1S; quite a bit more refined. Might schedule a test drive after the holidays.

But listening to podcasts like Autoline Daily, you would be left to believe the company is on borrowed time, much like Bollinger or (the now defunct) Lordstown.

Lucid survives only until the Saudi's loose interest. Rivian is in danger of the same unless R2 and R3 do the same as MY and M3 did for Tesla. The market (and tolerance) for ~$90K plus vehicles (electric or ICE) is limited.

 

[ENVErider]

lucid is better off than rivian simply because they are funded by the saudis. They are launching a midsize lucid model to compete with model Y and R2

I would agree that the backing for Lucid is more flexible and easier to extend, but I disagree that Lucid is better off overall. Tesla was repeatedly closer to bankruptcy than Rivian, and Rivian's Model 3 moment is less than a year away. I'd give Rivian a huge leg up due to:
1) Actual R2s are all over the road in testing, the production line is being wrapped up and release is months away
2) VW and others backed Rivian and had enough faith in their future to put their OS into upcoming VW EVs
3) TEV recently reported losses for R1s were on average $36K/vehicle, while Lucid was reported to have $240K losses/vehicle, and that's with some Lucids already selling for over $200K. The gap Lucid has to bridge to profitability is ridiculous; Rivian's is manageable, IMO ()

Of course, no one, including so-called experts, knows where Rivian and Lucid will be in 10 years. Hopefully, this doesn't come across as negative trolling. I just wanted to share a different perspective on Rivian's future. If I had tons of cash to pour into an automaker stock, RIVN would be the first place I'd put it. Personally, I think the upcoming Sodium and solid-state batteries will shake up the market so much that it'll be hard to pick any automaker winners, but China, in general, appears to be an unstoppable juggernaut in EVs and batteries.

 

[Rade]

90K plus vehicles (electric or ICE) is limited.

...let's just hope someone got the memo...

 

[sunydrm]

I would agree that the backing for Lucid is more flexible and easier to extend, but I disagree that Lucid is better off overall. Tesla was repeatedly closer to bankruptcy than Rivian, and Rivian's Model 3 moment is less than a year away. I'd give Rivian a huge leg up due to:

Tesla was about 10 billion in debt and they delivered 3x what rivian did for the same amount of money.

Tesla made back that 10 billion through crypto, energy credits, and selling vehicles for record high prices (due to high demand). Model 3s were selling close to 60K in some trims and possibly more with FSD.

Rivian is 30 billion in debt and will not have an equivalent model 3 moment due high competition, decreasing demand, no energy credits, low profit margin, etc.

Some projections I saw show rivian only having a net profit by 2028 if they have 22.5% gross margin. That will never happen. Rivian currently only has gross profit due to join venture from VW which will run out. The price war is too high for anyone to have 22.5% margin. That 22.5% margin was assuming Full factory capacity worth of sales which we don't know will happen.

Tesla had gross profit since 2013. They were never selling cars for huge losses and figuring out how to make a profit later. That's dumb.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Tesla was about 10 billion in debt and they delivered 3x what rivian did for the same amount of money.

Tesla made back that 10 billion through crypto, energy credits, and selling vehicles for record high prices (due to high demand). Model 3s were selling close to 60K in some trims and possibly more with FSD.

Rivian is 30 billion in debt and will not have an equivalent model 3 moment due high competition, decreasing demand, no energy credits, low profit margin, etc.

Some projections I saw show rivian only having a net profit by 2028 if they have 22.5% gross margin. That will never happen. Rivian currently only has gross profit due to join venture from VW which will run out. The price war is too high for anyone to have 22.5% margin. That 22.5% margin was assuming Full factory capacity worth of sales which we don't know will happen.

Tesla had gross profit since 2013. They were never selling cars for huge losses and figuring out how to make a profit later. That's dumb.

Yet another person who doesn't understand what gross profit means, and doesn't mean. Not only that, but another post is completely devoid of sources praising Tesla. Go shill for Tesla in the Tesla forum, it's already old here.

 

[ENVErider]

Tesla was about 10 billion in debt and they delivered 3x what rivian did for the same amount of money.

Tesla made back that 10 billion through crypto, energy credits, and selling vehicles for record high prices (due to high demand). Model 3s were selling close to 60K in some trims and possibly more with FSD.

Rivian is 30 billion in debt and will not have an equivalent model 3 moment due high competition, decreasing demand, no energy credits, low profit margin, etc.

Some projections I saw show rivian only having a net profit by 2028 if they have 22.5% gross margin. That will never happen. Rivian currently only has gross profit due to join venture from VW which will run out. The price war is too high for anyone to have 22.5% margin. That 22.5% margin was assuming Full factory capacity worth of sales which we don't know will happen.

Tesla had gross profit since 2013. They were never selling cars for huge losses and figuring out how to make a profit later. That's dumb.

I tend to agree with many of your points, with the exception of the last paragraph. I will clarify that when I said "Model 3 moment," I meant explosive sales growth, not similar profit margins. No company, including Rivian, Slate, etc., will be capable of duplicating this growth pattern in the same way. For reasons you already cited, and many not cited, this is an entirely different environment than Tesla's almost uncontested EV market entry. Comparisons of gross and net profit are skewed not only by this fact but also by Tesla's product diversity.
As for the last comment, based on my own recollection and reporting, the Roadster and early model S took big losses per car. I'm not sure if you took offense to my Tesla comment, or why you even went into a Tesla tangent, but my comments were not a shot at Tesla; the main point I made was that Rivian is, IMO, in a way better spot financially than Lucid, and I'm still of that opinion.

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