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Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port

solaskaze

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I totally agree with this comment. Just supply an adapter and call it done. For me, the CSS network isn’t that good and is sparse. Really keeps us from taking the Riv a lot of the time. If I had the adapter, we’d be golden. The SC network is everywhere and reliable with reliability being the important part.
I'd be OK with an adapter AND I would pay extra myself to have both ports.
That said, anyone here lamenting about how incredibly ugly, and huge, CCS is ... just remember CHAdeMo, and realize that it could be far, far worse, and make yourself feel better.
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sub

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Even when the Ford Supercharger to CCS adapter becomes available in early 2024, only Ford vehicles will be able to use them since there is a crypto handshake that identifies the car before charging will start, so Rivians won’t be able to use them unless Rivian inks a similar deal with Tesla.
It is possible that the adapter could generate the identification signal.

Register the adapter's serial number to your Tesla account, and anytime that adapter is used, Tesla knows who to bill.
 

scottf200

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I'd be OK with an adapter AND I would pay extra myself to have both ports.
That said, anyone here lamenting about how incredibly ugly, and huge, CCS is ... just remember CHAdeMo, and realize that it could be far, far worse, and make yourself feel better.
Visuals.
Rivian R1T R1S Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port ddyhzP8

Rivian R1T R1S Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port bUY1qax
 

DuoRivians

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It's not about the physical connector. It's about NACS being a Tesla IP and CCS being an open standard determined by the industry.

If Tesla gave up NACS patents and entirely let NACS be determined by the industry, not Tesla, then that would be a different conversation.
 

Dirtman16

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This has nothing to do with the size of the connector. It's about open v proprietary standards. As said earlier, if Tesla gave up the NACS patents and allowed it to be a truly industry determined protocol, that would be a different conversation.
They are already actively doing this. Press Release on NACS

They've released the engineering specification and state they are working with standards bodies to codify it as a public standard.

Again, NACS does not equal Tesla Supercharger. Tesla Superchargers just use NACS as a connector. You could use a non-Telsa communications protocol with NACS if you wanted.
 

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sub

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There's absolutely no need to retrofit. Tesla just needs to sell an adapter for a few hundred dollars.
If Tesla sold an adapter, I would of course buy it in a heartbeat. But I would still be willing to pay a lot for a retrofit.
 

2025R1S

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as a model 3 owner, I’ve never once been worried about isolation of electricity. I have, however, been worried about a CCS charger not working. My wife can’t even operate the CCS chargers. If she can even figure out how to get it to start charging - cables are too big and bulky - she got one stuck on the car once and I had to drive 37 minutes thru traffic to come help her.

It's really not an issue as the car port current carrying pins go to an isolated contact arm of a DPDT contactor/relay and the handshake and comms with the EVSE determines which way the contact arm in the contactor swings. If it sees a malformed waveform or bad/garbled comms message at the handshake (when you plug the charge handle in to the vehicle port) it doesn't move the contactor to either the DC or AC side. It's pretty much impossible for the onboard equipment to connect a DC supply to the vehicle AC circuit and vice-versa.
 

Dirtman16

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Forgive me for this rather basic question, but what makes the CCS connector(and presumably the receptacle) inferior, and the NACS superior? Aren't both simply hunks of plastic with copper studs that transfer current and/or data from charger to vehicle?

I can understand if, for example the NACS connector has a greater capacity for current transfer, and handles data better, but nothing I read seems to indicate that's the case. And of course, it's easy to understand that Tesla's proprietary charging network (accessed via NACS connectors), with it's better hardware & software, along with [generally] higher transfer capability is superior to the EA and other charging networks that use CCS connectors.

A related issue I can't get my head around is why it is that a simple adapter isn't sufficient to be able to use either connector / receptacle combination. Of course, I may be missing something basic - I'm new to the EV world and whenever my R1S is delivered, it will be my first EV - but it would seem that the Tesla charging network superiority isn't due to their use of the NACS connector.
1) NACS has no specified maximum current rating. Current is limited only by temperature. I'm less familiar with the CCS standard, but typically stations are limited to 500 amps.
2) NACS is rated to 1,000V, same as CCS.
3) NACS is compatible with ISO-15118 plug and charge.
4) NACS is substantially smaller than CCS.

If you really want to nerd out, read this.

Regarding your question on adapters. Sure, they work, but who wants to have to remember to keep it with them all the time or plug it in every time. It's also another potential point of failure.

but it would seem that the Tesla charging network superiority isn't due to their use of the NACS connector.
This is 100% true. It's the vertical integration and focus on maintenance and uptime that makes it superior. However, NACS certainly doesn't hurt from a usability standpoint, especially for older folks and those with disabilities. Some CCS handles and cable combos can be legitimately difficult to handle.
 

2025R1S

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that big clicker/button at the top of the CCS handle is the one my wife can’t always free up with her hand. She isn’t frail, she’s just a tiny girl - who probably would be terrible at playing thumb wars.



 

DuoRivians

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They are already actively doing this. Press Release on NACS

They've released the engineering specification and state they are working with standards bodies to codify it as a public standard.

Again, NACS does not equal Tesla Supercharger. Tesla Superchargers just use NACS as a connector. You could use a non-Telsa communications protocol with NACS if you wanted.
It is still Tesla IP. Until they gave that up entirely, oems are always at risk of Tesla’s whims. And knowing Elon, that’s not an assurance
 

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scottf200

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Everyone is overlooking the issue that NACS uses the same pins for AC and DC, big safety disadvantage. Because of this the vehicle needs to provide isolation internally between the signals, and thus requires additional safety software. From a safety standpoint NACS is inferior, IMO.

Imagine connecting AC voltage to the DC battery pack (definite hazard), or connecting the DC input to the on-board charger (may or may not be a hazard). The CCS standard solves this potential failure point, without adding additional hardware inside the vehicle.

I think Tesla is not currently selling a NACS to CCS adapter, because what would happen if someone connects the adpater to a destination charger and puts AC voltage on the CCS DC pins. Will the car be smart enough not to turn on the DC charging contactors? I am sure Tesla has this all figured out in their software, because it has been their proprietary design, but I doubt any other manufacturer has considered this.
It's really not an issue as the car port current carrying pins go to an isolated contact arm of a DPDT contactor/relay and the handshake and comms with the EVSE determines which way the contact arm in the contactor swings. If it sees a malformed waveform or bad/garbled comms message at the handshake (when you plug the charge handle in to the vehicle port) it doesn't move the contactor to either the DC or AC side. It's pretty much impossible for the onboard equipment to connect a DC supply to the vehicle AC circuit and vice-versa.
https://www.tesla.com/support/charging-product-guides#NACS-resources
Rivian R1T R1S Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port yyAdxnv


From the "Technical Spec" doc above.

Rivian R1T R1S Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port KCXXjmB
 

azbill

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It's really not an issue as the car port current carrying pins go to an isolated contact arm of a DPDT contactor/relay and the handshake and comms with the EVSE determines which way the contact arm in the contactor swings. If it sees a malformed waveform or bad/garbled comms message at the handshake (when you plug the charge handle in to the vehicle port) it doesn't move the contactor to either the DC or AC side. It's pretty much impossible for the onboard equipment to connect a DC supply to the vehicle AC circuit and vice-versa.
Yes, I agree not an issue with existing Tesla vehicles. But existing CCS vehicles have different setups than Tesla and did not have to consider this issue.

And for example, the Mach E has a very well known fault that results in a welded contactor in the battery path.
 

MDH

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Will be very interesting to watch what happens next. Either Ford is the first domino to fall and all major manufacturers follow suit, or it's a short term win for Ford and their customers and CCS remains the standard. Personally, I hope Ford is a test for widespread rollout of the CCS to Tesla adapter and Tesla will roll it out to anyone who wants it. Magic Dock never made sense save for the ability to limit which SC stations non-Teslas were allowed to use. The Magic Dock would be expensive to rollout for widespread use, where an adapter they can make money off of on the front side as well as higher charging revenue on the backside.
I'm guessing Hyundai will be the next OEM to follow Ford. Once a second and third OEM moves toward NACS, it will be ballgame. Look for GM and VW to be last, if ever.
 

JayinNJ

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Its not a bad thing. Just pointing out that Tesla driver pulled into the parking lot and had a choice and decided to use the EA station instead of the SC. If I believed all the hype on here regarding the Tesla network there is no good reason that would happen.
It was probably cheaper. Or he wanted to try out his new adapter.
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