Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port

[docwhiz]

The DC pins for CCS connect directly to the battery, bypassing the charger entirely.

That would be a very poor design and dangerous.
You absolutely must have something between the charger and the battery to protect the battery.
(You may be confused since AC charging requires rectification before sending the power to the battery but there is always a circuit to regulate the power to the battery and shut it off when the battery if full.)

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[Dark-Fx]

That would be a very poor design and dangerous.
You absolutely must have something between the charger and the battery to protect the battery.
(You may be confused since AC charging requires rectification before sending the power to the battery but there is always a circuit to regulate the power to the battery and shut it off when the battery if full.)

Tesla's design sends DC to the input side of the charger. CCS does not do this as I've already stated several times.

 

[SANZC02]

Ford could just add a Tesla port on the front right side of the car. Then SC cables would reach with no other modifications. Rivian could do the same just adding another flip door to the other side.

Oddly in the early mules Rivian did have the charge port on front right, not sure why it was moved to the left.

 

[docwhiz]

Tesla's design sends DC to the input side of the charger. CCS does not do this as I've already stated several times.

Notice those relays, "chargepost controller" and "isolation monitor"? That's your battery protection.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Notice those relays, "chargepost controller" and "isolation monitor"? That's your battery protection.

Why are you ignoring what I've been stating? In Tesla's case 400VDC is being applied to the input of the charger. Tesla does something special to accommodate this happening that CCS vehicles are not required to do because they will never see that high of voltage applied.

Tesla had some issues with their onboard chargers blowing up from CCS chargers when they first started shipping them because the CCS chargers sometimes apply too much voltage for the components Tesla is using during the isolation testing, because the chargers are still connected to the DC lines before the battery contactors are activated. CCS vehicles don't need to worry about this because they don't do it.

 

[docwhiz]

Why are you ignoring what I've been stating? In Tesla's case 400VDC is being applied to the input of the charger. Tesla does something special to accommodate this happening that CCS vehicles are not required to do because they will never see that high of voltage applied.

Tesla had some issues with their onboard chargers blowing up from CCS chargers when they first started shipping them because the CCS chargers sometimes apply too much voltage for the components Tesla is using during the isolation testing, because the chargers are still connected to the DC lines before the battery contactors are activated. CCS vehicles don't need to worry about this because they don't do it.

CCS vehicles don't connect the charger to the battery?

 

[zefram47]

I'm guessing Hyundai will be the next OEM to follow Ford. Once a second and third OEM moves toward NACS, it will be ballgame. Look for GM and VW to be last, if ever.

Almost guaranteed Hyundai / Kia will NOT be the next. The eGMP platform is an 800V platform and the V2 / V3 superchargers supposedly top out at 500V. They would provide an inferior charging session compared with 500A capable 350 kW CCS units. I can't find an exact spec, but the eGMP cars have to boost the 400V input to 800V and most cars that do this are only around 100 kW where on an 800+V charger they'll do closer to 240 kW.

 

[Dirtman16]

Almost guaranteed Hyundai / Kia will NOT be the next. The eGMP platform is an 800V platform and the V2 / V3 superchargers supposedly top out at 500V. They would provide an inferior charging session compared with 500A capable 350 kW CCS units. I can't find an exact spec, but the eGMP cars have to boost the 400V input to 800V and most cars that do this are only around 100 kW where on an 800+V charger they'll do closer to 240 kW.

Agreed. I think either Stellantis or GM is next in line (of the legacy automakers).

 

[Zorg]

Why are you ignoring what I've been stating? In Tesla's case 400VDC is being applied to the input of the charger. Tesla does something special to accommodate this happening that CCS vehicles are not required to do because they will never see that high of voltage applied.

Tesla had some issues with their onboard chargers blowing up from CCS chargers when they first started shipping them because the CCS chargers sometimes apply too much voltage for the components Tesla is using during the isolation testing, because the chargers are still connected to the DC lines before the battery contactors are activated. CCS vehicles don't need to worry about this because they don't do it.

Really don't care. I leave it to Rivian engineers to figure it out.

From an user standpoint, the Tesla SC experience is better. They're everywhere and reliable. The handle is much easier to use (got both Tesla and Rivian). The smart thing would be to keep the CCS port where it is and add a NACS port on the passenger side. Based on the vehicle price, it should be doable.

 

[Goose]

I think it has a risk of pulling customers away from Tesla more than it does the other manufacturers. A lot of Tesla buyers live under this assumption that you can't do road trips in a non-Tesla vehicle because of this perpetuation that the conglomeration of CCS networks is unviable.

Ford seems to be doing all they can to entice people away from their competitors. Their "we will still have carplay" announcement after GM said they were removing it from their future EVs.

well of course Ford is attempting to pull people away from the competition, they’re a major global automaker. I say this as someone that has never owned a Ford, or an EV for that matter.

I REALLY try to stay in the know on EV’s, I want one for my next vehicle. CCS should be the plug standard for parity with Europe (yes, I know, CCS1 vs 2). Here’s the thing, the CCS network is a disaster and the word of mouth has spread to non-EV owners/buyers. Plus, legitimate CCS expansion has been very very slow, and those chargers are unreliable. I live in Cary, NC (just outside the capital of Raleigh), if I wanted to tow my boat with a CCS truck to Wilmington, NC I’m probably screwed. There’s one 62kWh charger at a random BBQ shack on the way, and based on plug share it’s in use as I type this. There’s 2 Tesla supercharger stations on the same route.

 

[docwhiz]

Here's a good comparison between NACS and CCS:

 

[Dark-Fx]

Here’s the thing, the CCS network is a disaster and the word of mouth has spread to non-EV owners/buyers.

It really is not. Tesla stans just keep repeating it trying to make it true. If you live in an area with bad coverage it's because you are an outlier in your area with your interest in EVs, and your state is openly hostile to them

 

[manitou202]

It really is not. Tesla stans just keep repeating it trying to make it true. If you live in an area with bad coverage it's because you are an outlier in your area with your interest in EVs, and your state is openly hostile to them

I've said this many times, but Colorado has much better CCS coverage than NACS coverage. Getting to remote areas of Colorado requires using CCS chargers. The state kicked off a state wide campaign several years ago to cover all rural areas. As a result we are in better shape than probably any other state. They started with basic Chargepoint chargers but have recently been upgrading all of them to 150kW+ Chargepoints. They have been very reliable. Add in a lot of EA sites combined with RAN network at 4 locations, we have it pretty good.

My guess is CCS will explode in the next couple of years and make a lot of the debate irrelevant. Unless Tesla truly opens up the standard and gets a lot of other automakers and charging companies on board, the will eventually surpassed by CCS.

Currently NACS is the equivalent of Shell oil owning the design and patents for a gas fuel pump nozzle, and trying to get all automakers and other oil companies on board. It will be a tough sell.

 

[itselectric]

Ford CEO said today on CNBC that they will provide a CCS network adapter, so the vehicles will have NACS only starting in 2025. Adding to OP.

I don't know about you all and I don't know how much Tesla will give up control of NACS, but their stuff is superior and I'd rather just have one standard.

 

[scottf200]

It really is not. Tesla stans just keep repeating it trying to make it true. If you live in an area with bad coverage it's because you are an outlier in your area with your interest in EVs, and your state is openly hostile to them

- Percentage up time is dramatically different.
- Number of stalls (ports) per charging site is dramatically different.

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