Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port

[zefram47]

Will be very interesting to watch what happens next. Either Ford is the first domino to fall and all major manufacturers follow suit, or it's a short term win for Ford and their customers and CCS remains the standard. Personally, I hope Ford is a test for widespread rollout of the CCS to Tesla adapter and Tesla will roll it out to anyone who wants it. Magic Dock never made sense save for the ability to limit which SC stations non-Teslas were allowed to use. The Magic Dock would be expensive to rollout for widespread use, where an adapter they can make money off of on the front side as well as higher charging revenue on the backside.

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[Yossarian]

The existing ccs port is pathetic.

I . .
1) To me, it's a no brainer for Rivian to switch to NACS if Telsa will work with them to allow an adapter to work at Superchargers. Having used both CCS and NACS connectors, it's basically unquestionable to me that NACS is superior.
. . .

Forgive me for this rather basic question, but what makes the CCS connector(and presumably the receptacle) inferior, and the NACS superior? Aren't both simply hunks of plastic with copper studs that transfer current and/or data from charger to vehicle?

I can understand if, for example the NACS connector has a greater capacity for current transfer, and handles data better, but nothing I read seems to indicate that's the case. And of course, it's easy to understand that Tesla's proprietary charging network (accessed via NACS connectors), with it's better hardware & software, along with [generally] higher transfer capability is superior to the EA and other charging networks that use CCS connectors.

A related issue I can't get my head around is why it is that a simple adapter isn't sufficient to be able to use either connector / receptacle combination. Of course, I may be missing something basic - I'm new to the EV world and whenever my R1S is delivered, it will be my first EV - but it would seem that the Tesla charging network superiority isn't due to their use of the NACS connector.

 

[MDH]

My office overlooks the EA chargers in Alexandria, VA. I see a wide mix of vehicles. I agree with 1 & 2. We also see quite a few Rivian's, Taycans, Lucid's, BMW's, Mercedes and Mach-E. I see a handful of Lightnings, but definitely more Rivian's than Lightnings here.

RE the Ford News..

1. If Ford goes ahead and completely replaces the CCS in its next gen vehicles that will be interesting. That's how I read their statement.
2. Ford obviously did market research and found fear of charging is holding many ICE owners back from buying an EV. (whether founded our not, this is the impression non EV drivers have)
3. What's Tesla getting out of this other than helping out a competitor and established OEM?
4. Tesla owners are going to be pissed having to share chargers with Ford drivers. Tesla will need a lot more chargers.
5. I think the CCS charging landscape will look much different in 2025-26.

Tesla and R1T owner here. No, I'm not pissed. Just the opposite. If Rivian follows suit, it makes adventuring in remote areas far easier. Tesla is expanding SCs faster that EA, Chargepoint and EVgo combined. There is no worry about SC access.

 

[DuoRivians]

Rivian's integrating NACS into their vehicles is a strategic mistake. It introduces unnecessary manufacturing dependence on Tesla's whims, which is what Tesla wants exactly.

Make no mistake, this is about Tesla's trying to impose control on the industry.

CCS open standards is the exact reason why this exists--to ensure one company doesn't have control over others.

It is fine to provide an adapter to work with Tesla Superchargers. This allows Rivian drivers the freedom to use Superchargers, without imposing a strategic cost onto Rivian Automative, Inc.

 

[cdub]

Forgive me for this rather basic question, but what makes the CCS connector(and presumably the receptacle) inferior, and the NACS superior?

The NACS is MUCH smaller and the plug n charge capability is amazing.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I can understand if, for example the NACS connector has a greater capacity for current transfer, and handles data better, but nothing I read seems to indicate that's the case. And of course, it's easy to understand that Tesla's proprietary charging network (accessed via NACS connectors), with it's better hardware and [generally] higher transfer capability is superior to the EA and other charging networks that use CCS connectors.

Tesla's updated connector that doesn't exist yet is supposed to be able to handle 1000A continuous current, even though they have never demonstrated that even in lab conditions.

The argument really boils down to physical size of the connector itself, which isn't going to change how unwieldly the higher ampacity cables attached to it are, and actually overall could make it worse because you have less leverage on the smaller connector.

RAN stations have been pretty easy to use because they are designed to work well with the Rivians. The only stations I've truly had issues with are the 500A EVGo ones with the cables on a tether that are designed to be able to reach for any of the CCS vehicles. When the cables are cold they are a bitch. But they have to be so thick because of their length.

 

[DuoRivians]

The NACS is MUCH smaller and the plug n charge capability is amazing.

NACS is not the open standard. If Tesla gave up all its IP on it and allowed the industry (not Tesla) to control its future, then that would be a different discussion.

In phone terms, I don't want non-iPhones to adopt the Lightning cable, and put these phones at risk at whatever Apple decides to do later. It's much better that all phones adopt the usb3 open standard.

 

[zefram47]

Forgive me for this rather basic question, but what makes the CCS connector(and presumably the receptacle) inferior, and the NACS superior? Aren't both simply hunks of plastic with copper studs that transfer current and/or data from charger to vehicle?

I've never owned a Tesla, but the only real advantage is that the CCS connector is pretty unwieldy even for an able-bodied person, especially in the cold. Imagine someone with only one usable arm and CCS is a tragedy. One big downside to the NACS / Tesla plug is that it uses the same pins for both AC and DC, so you need hardware onboard the vehicle to isolate the two. With CCS there are separate pins and inherent isolation.

 

[zefram47]

The NACS is MUCH smaller and the plug n charge capability is amazing.

Newsflash, there's nothing preventing plug and charge capability with CCS and there's already a standard for it. EVGo and EA both support it...Rivian has yet to add support.

 

[Dark-Fx]

One big downside to the NACS / Tesla plug is that it uses the same pins for both AC and DC, so you need hardware onboard the vehicle to isolate the two. With CCS there are separate pins and inherent isolation.

Tesla doesn't actually isolate the onboard charger. It's just designed to withstand the higher voltage and not operate when DC voltage is applied. Ford will have to isolate if they have two DC inputs.

 

[Jarico75]

Its not a bad thing. Just pointing out that Tesla driver pulled into the parking lot and had a choice and decided to use the EA station instead of the SC. If I believed all the hype on here regarding the Tesla network there is no good reason that would happen.

It could be possible that the rates at the EA station were lower than the SC rates. I remember the days that we used to shop around for the lowest gas prices when getting ready to fill up. The take away here is the Ford owners will have more options than other manufacturers, Except Tesla, when it comes to selecting where to charge.

 

[sub]

Rivian, if you are listening. I would gladly pay you a 4-figure sum for a retrofit NACS port.

 

[jjswan33]

It could be possible that the rates at the EA station were lower than the SC rates. I remember the days that we used to shop around for the lowest gas prices when getting ready to fill up. The take away here is the Ford owners will have more options than other manufacturers, Except Tesla, when it comes to selecting where to charge.

Oh I knew the answer. The EA station is cheaper and also probably faster (that SC is limited to 150kW I believe) but you know lets all switch to the Tesla connector

 

[Dark-Fx]

Oh I knew the answer. The EA station is cheaper and also probably faster (that SC is limited to 150kW I believe) but you know lets all switch to the Tesla connector

Something must be wrong with that Tesla driver if they'd rather have to whip out an adapter and use that hard to maneuver cable instead of the incredibly superior Tesla connector.

 

[DuoRivians]

Rivian, if you are listening. I would gladly pay you a 4-figure sum for a retrofit NACS port.

There's absolutely no need to retrofit. Tesla just needs to sell an adapter for a few hundred dollars.

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