Solid-state battery race accelerates

[White Shadow]

I had QuantumScape stock for a few years and dumped it for a loss last October at around $16/share. Today, it's less than half that. I'm surprised that it hasn't started climbing back up.

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[M3_R2]

Almost bought QS but went with RIVN instead. Whew! Though I might consider it again if it dips too low. I think they will eventually get there but definitely not this year.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/q...nning-the-ev-battery-makers-earnings-f7b17ffb

 

[daeHelkcunK]

^ the only thing true about Donut is they make claims

BYD has invested the most AFAIK and has the expertise to mass produce SSB like tomorrow if need be.

This is getting interesting. I guess we'll know in 3 days

 

[mkhuffman]

This is getting interesting. I guess we'll know in 3 days

If it is true, if they really have solved every single battery problem ever known, then he is correct. The negative narrative will continue to shift until Donut proves they can put these in vehicles at mass production rates.

Because their claims are just way too fantastic.

There are many, many small start-ups who are trying to solve the battery problems Donut claims they solved, not just big companies. Also including researchers in education institutions and government. This isn't just big industry pushing back, this is pretty much everyone pushing back.

I want him to be telling the truth. But I am going to remain skeptical until I can drive it. (Or until Kyle can drive it. LoL.)

 

[savethemanual]

If it is true, if they really have solved every single battery problem ever known, then he is correct. The negative narrative will continue to shift until Donut proves they can put these in vehicles at mass production rates.

Because their claims are just way too fantastic.

There are many, many small start-ups who are trying to solve the battery problems Donut claims they solved, not just big companies. Also including researchers in education institutions and government. This isn't just big industry pushing back, this is pretty much everyone pushing back.

I want him to be telling the truth. But I am going to remain skeptical until I can drive it. (Or until Kyle can drive it. LoL.)

Yeah, definitely smells fishy....but there's always a chance. Disruption does happen and it could very well be Donut Labs! Keeping an open mind on this one.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Solid state batteries are already commercially available. They aren't cheap though, that's the differentiator.

 

[mkhuffman]

Solid state batteries are already commercially available. They aren't cheap though, that's the differentiator.

Yeah, but they claim:

1. No cold or hot temperature impacts to capacity.
2. Easy to source battery materials.
3. No negative environmental impact.
4. Easy to mass produce.
5. 10-minute charging. (with no kWH capacity provided, of course)
6. Twice the energy density when compared with current batteries.
7. Stable with no risk of thermal runaway or fire.
8. Cheap.

Seriously? Every single issue that batteries have struggled with has been solved? Every single one?

Those are rhetorical questions.

It is unbelievable, but anything is possible.

Pigs actually can fly, if launched from a giant slingshot.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Yeah, but they claim:

1. No cold or hot temperature impacts to capacity.
2. Easy to source battery materials.
3. No negative environmental impact.
4. Easy to mass produce.
5. 10-minute charging. (with no kWH capacity provided, of course)
6. Twice the energy density when compared with current batteries.
7. Stable with no risk of thermal runaway or fire.
8. Cheap.

Seriously? Every single issue that batteries have struggled with has been solved? Every single one?

Those are rhetorical questions.

It is unbelievable, but anything is possible.

Pigs actually can fly, if launched from a giant slingshot.

4 is the only suspect thing, besides 8, at least. If you ignore the startup costs, only 4. I think we're more likely to get wet batteries that are cheaper, higher capacity, and easier to produce, first. The issue with some of the alternative chemistries, is their useful voltage range is very significant, and a big part of why they aren't viable for vehicles.

 

[savethemanual]

Another view of the video, it could 100 percent be AI too .

 

[BigSkies]

I wouldn't count on anything until a major manufacturer commits to a specific model with a specific launch date.

An EV battery might cost $7k-$10K (SWAG).

Car manufactures are putting 100k - 150k mile warranties on these batteries.

A big engineering challenge with new battery technologies (solid state, semi-solid state, silicone anode) isn't energy density, it's battery longevity. It's been known how to make higher energy density batteries for a while. These batteries might just last a few charge cycles though.

A lot of engineering work is going into making these more energy dense batteries work for longer.

There's a large financial risk to these batteries working great for 90k miles, but crapping out at 90k-100k miles. That's not a small recall expense. Then there's the reputational hit if the batteries start crapping out just outside of warranty.

 

[mkhuffman]

I wouldn't count on anything until a major manufacturer commits to a specific model with a specific launch date.

An EV battery might cost $7k-$10K (SWAG).

Car manufactures are putting 100k - 150k mile warranties on these batteries.

A big engineering challenge with new battery technologies (solid state, semi-solid state, silicone anode) isn't energy density, it's battery longevity. It's been known how to make higher energy density batteries for a while. These batteries might just last a few charge cycles though.

A lot of engineering work is going into making these more energy dense batteries work for longer.

There's a large financial risk to these batteries working great for 90k miles, but crapping out at 90k-100k miles. That's not a small recall expense. Then there's the reputational hit if the batteries start crapping out just outside of warranty.

I think I missed the life expectancy claim Donut is making. 1 billion miles. Or something stupid like that.

 

[Zoidz]

I wouldn't count on anything until a major manufacturer commits to a specific model with a specific launch date.

An EV battery might cost $7k-$10K (SWAG).

Car manufactures are putting 100k - 150k mile warranties on these batteries.

A big engineering challenge with new battery technologies (solid state, semi-solid state, silicone anode) isn't energy density, it's battery longevity. It's been known how to make higher energy density batteries for a while. These batteries might just last a few charge cycles though.

A lot of engineering work is going into making these more energy dense batteries work for longer.

There's a large financial risk to these batteries working great for 90k miles, but crapping out at 90k-100k miles. That's not a small recall expense. Then there's the reputational hit if the batteries start crapping out just outside of warranty.

I think I missed the life expectancy claim Donut is making. 1 billion miles. Or something stupid like that.

Yeah, a commonly overlooked or downplayed issue with battery longevity is heat cycle and related mechanical stresses over years of cycling. Just because one cell can perform well in lab tests is a far cry from a densely engineered pack experiencing 50 to 100 degree temperature deltas every few days for 10 years.

 

[NY_Rob]

Every battery chemistry/material has a unique charge profile from low starting voltage to full charge voltage. It's voltage/current taper is like a "fingerprint" which can not be faked and which accurately identifies the chemistry/material properties of a cell. It's the accepted way cells have been analyzed for years.

Donut claimed "no lithium" in it's cell, but the charge curve documented and published by VTT is a 100% match for a standard Lithium cell. So, Donut lied about the first big claim of "no lithium".
Three more test results to be released, they're digging their own grave here...

 

[mkhuffman]

Every battery chemistry/material has a unique charge profile from low starting voltage to full charge voltage. It's current taper is like a "fingerprint" which can not be faked and which accurately identifies the chemistry/material properties of a cell.

Donut claimed "no lithium" in it's cell, but the charge curve documented and published by VTT is a 100% match for a standard Lithium cell. So, Donut lied about the first claim of "no lithium". Three more test results to be released, they're digging their own grave here...

I wonder how they are going to spin that test result?

 

[mkg3]

Donut claimed "no lithium" in it's cell, but the charge curve documented and published by VTT is a 100% match for a standard Lithium cell. So, Donut lied about the first claim of "no lithium". Three more test results to be released, they're digging their own grave here...

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