R1S XL?

[SlaterGS]

How many non-truck vehicles are longer than 202". It is going to be one of the longest non-truck vehicles on the road.

With the frunk and the 3rd row down storage is going to way surpass almost any other vehicle on the road. Perhaps people haul a lot of stuff, but my sense in the storage capacity of the current length is going to satisfy 99% of folks not looking for a van or truck.

I am a little bummed on 202" personally. The frunk is going to be empty most of the time as will most of the storage behind the 2nd row. Parking however will be an issue 100% of the time in garages, parking garages, and in cities...I think Rivian decided to err on too much storage vs a more compact design...oh well, everything is a tradeoff...

Two clarifying questions.
Are you considering vehicles like a suburban a truck since it is "truck-based"? If so, disregard the following.
Does anyone know if it is actually 202" or 200.7"? I see 202" on rivian.com but I have seen a tad shorter on some other posts and articles.

Considering SUVs in general have exploded in the US market and outsold sedans since 2015 (?), I'd say there is definitely a huge demand for SUVs in various use cases, but I'll let someone who enjoys more thorough analysis of the market trends to chime in.
Now, I'm not really sure how well the studies distinguish between crossover, mid-size, and full-size suv's, but it's interesting to see decisions such as Chevy take the Tahoe from 204" to 210". Cadillac did the same with their escalade.

I would agree, that the inside storage capacity with seats down will be great and may satisfy 99% of folks that use it in that particular way, BUT not everyone will use it that way hence the 3rd row seating. I've never once used our Navigator with all of the back seats down, because family.

I don't live in the city, but go enough and my only issue with my Navigator is making sure that it isn't too tall for various parking garages. The R1S is better in this area so personally I think the size can get me anywhere except in compact parking spaces.

Understand that I always want the smallest vehicle that I can get away with. The Navigator is about the max length that my wife is willing to drive. So if the R1S could be a bit shorter and tick off the boxes of a family that has some car seats then I am all for it!

Just for reference. Non-trucks longer than 202" (probably some more, just the first that come to mind):

Toyota Sequoia	205.1"
GMC Yukon	204"
GMC Yukon XL	224"
Infiniti QX80	210.2"
BMW X7	203.3"
Cadillac Escalade (Old)	203.9
Cadillac Escalade (2021)	211.9"
Cadillac Escalade ESV	227"

Lincoln Navigator	210"
Lincoln Navigator XL	221.9"
Chevy Tahoe (2021)	210.7"
Chevy Tahoe (Old)	204"
Chevy Suburban	225.7"
Ford Expedition	210"
Ford Expedition Max	221.9"
Nissan Armada	208.9"

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[SlaterGS]

Keep in mind that depending on the year, the Navigator had rear independent suspension, whereas the Tahoe had a solid axle until the newest iteration. Makes a big difference in the floor space. Not sure how the IRS translates with batteries in the floor for the third row. Still something I would like to see in person as well.

Good call, I didn't realize that on the Tahoe. My Navigator has IRS but it sounds like none of the Tahoes I tried would so that makes sense.

 

[skyote]

An XL R1S might be a marketable option, but I want the shorter wheelbase & vehicle. With the frunk, the amount of storage is better than most similarly-sized 3 row vehicles.

I'm curious, why do you need the extra length?

 

[hola29]

No, I was using a truck bed as a criteria...I know folks call SUVs trucks, but I don't for whatever reason.

Agree, there are longer vehicles, but Rivian will still be one of the longer vehicles on the road ex-trucks. It's basically on the smaller side of the massive/ginormous SUV class of car...and iMHO, the amount of storage that will largely/most often be unused w/ the R1S is going to be class leading. I would have prefered a slight reduction in length, but that's just me

Totally subjective, but I have a feeling not too many generations away, they are going to laugh at us driving multiple ton vehicles, made out of heavily mined materials, with huge internal combustion engines, emitting toxic fumes, and loud noises to drive an average of a dozen or two miles a day...Those giant ICE SUV's w/ V8's seem like a joke at this point, to me at least....

Two clarifying questions.
Are you considering vehicles like a suburban a truck since it is "truck-based"? If so, disregard the following.
Does anyone know if it is actually 202" or 200.7"? I see 202" on rivian.com but I have seen a tad shorter on some other posts and articles.

Considering SUVs in general have exploded in the US market and outsold sedans since 2015 (?), I'd say there is definitely a huge demand for SUVs in various use cases, but I'll let someone who enjoys more thorough analysis of the market trends to chime in.
Now, I'm not really sure how well the studies distinguish between crossover, mid-size, and full-size suv's, but it's interesting to see decisions such as Chevy take the Tahoe from 204" to 210". Cadillac did the same with their escalade.

I would agree, that the inside storage capacity with seats down will be great and may satisfy 99% of folks that use it in that particular way, BUT not everyone will use it that way hence the 3rd row seating. I've never once used our Navigator with all of the back seats down, because family.

I don't live in the city, but go enough and my only issue with my Navigator is making sure that it isn't too tall for various parking garages. The R1S is better in this area so personally I think the size can get me anywhere except in compact parking spaces.

Understand that I always want the smallest vehicle that I can get away with. The Navigator is about the max length that my wife is willing to drive. So if the R1S could be a bit shorter and tick off the boxes of a family that has some car seats then I am all for it!

Just for reference. Non-trucks longer than 202" (probably some more, just the first that come to mind):

Toyota Sequoia	205.1"
GMC Yukon	204"
GMC Yukon XL	224"
Infiniti QX80	210.2"
BMW X7	203.3"
Cadillac Escalade (Old)	203.9
Cadillac Escalade (2021)	211.9"
Cadillac Escalade ESV	227"

Lincoln Navigator	210"
Lincoln Navigator XL	221.9"
Chevy Tahoe (2021)	210.7"
Chevy Tahoe (Old)	204"
Chevy Suburban	225.7"
Ford Expedition	210"
Ford Expedition Max	221.9"
Nissan Armada	208.9"

 

[SlaterGS]

No, I was using a truck bed as a criteria...I know folks call SUVs trucks, but I don't for whatever reason.

Agree, there are longer vehicles, but Rivian will still be one of the longer vehicles on the road ex-trucks. It's basically on the smaller side of the massive/ginormous SUV class of car...and iMHO, the amount of storage that will largely/most often be unused w/ the R1S is going to be class leading. I would have prefered a slight reduction in length, but that's just me

Totally subjective, but I have a feeling not too many generations away, they are going to laugh at us driving multiple ton vehicles, made out of heavily mined materials, with huge internal combustion engines, emitting toxic fumes, and loud noises to drive an average of a dozen or two miles a day...Those giant ICE SUV's w/ V8's seem like a joke at this point, to me at least....

I'm with you on the SUV truck thing, just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing.

My issue with giant SUV's/Trucks is with most of the people that never use them for their intended purpose. The amount of people in my area that have 1/2 to 1-ton trucks that never use them for hauling really bothers me. The same goes with families that have 1-2 kids buying the largest possible SUV and never once using more than the second row but they somehow manage to fill 100% of the available space in the rear along with a roof mounted cargo box if they travel more than an hour away.

All that being said, the R1S may/may not fit in an odd middle ground depending on how they distributed the internal space. IE Bigger than what a certain group of customers needs, or smaller than what another group needs.

I hate looking at photos and theorizing, I just want to go sit in one!

Anyways, I hope not too many generations away they are laughing at the fact that we had to drive in the first place

 

[SlaterGS]

An XL R1S might be aarketable option, but I want the shorter wheelbase & vehicle. With the frunk, the amount of storage is better than most similarly-sized 3 row vehicles.

I'm curious, why do you need the extra length?

I think it's about cargo space for OP.
For me it's about passenger room with kids and carseats.

Personally I'd prefer them to go as small as they can and nail the implementation of passenger room for 7 passengers. That seems a bit counterintuitive as most people want more cargo space if they have more passengers. So I might be in the minority, but with a sliver of space behind the 3rd row and the frunk, we will be set if the 3rd row can get in with the carseat installed.

 

[sub]

I'm curious, why do you need the extra length?

Because I plan to have all 3 rows of seats occupied by people most of the time. Smaller 3-row SUV's usually have room for 7 people, or 7 suitcases, but not 7 people and all of the S*** that you need traveling with 7 people. It sucks taking 2 cars on a cross-country road trip.

I also really like being able to just remove/fold kid's seats when I need to retrieve 4'x8' building supplies instead of renting (or buying) another vehicle just for that purpose.

 

[sub]

I think it's about cargo space for OP.
For me it's about passenger room with kids and carseats.

Personally I'd prefer them to go as small as they can and nail the implementation of passenger room for 7 passengers. That seems a bit counterintuitive as most people want more cargo space if they have more passengers. So I might be in the minority, but with a sliver of space behind the 3rd row and the frunk, we will be set if the 3rd row can get in with the carseat installed.

I am assuming that the R1S was already long enough to provide sufficient passenger space to all 3 rows. But if that is not the case and the 2nd/3rd rows are uncomfortably small, I will be all the more disappointed that they didn't stick with the R1T length for the R1S.

 

[IHScout]

t they didn't stick with the R1T length for the R1S.

I am not aware of them ever expressing the intention to have a R1S the length of the R1T. Not every person is the right fit for these two vehicles....

 

[electruck]

Does anyone know if it is actually 202" or 200.7"? I see 202" on rivian.com but I have seen a tad shorter on some other posts and articles.

It has grown over time.
Originally published spec was 198.4".
Then they lengthened it to 200.7".
Later, they further extended it to 202".

 

[sub]

I am not aware of them ever expressing the intention to have a R1S the length of the R1T. Not every person is the right fit for these two vehicles....

I agree - I have not seen anything to hint that a longer SUV ever has been / will be planned for production. But it seems like it would have easier and more cost effective to make both vehicles the same size. So surely they considered it and chose to make the SUV smaller than the pickup.

Based on the responses in this thread, I can see why they made the SUV shorter. I seem to be in the minority for wishing the R1S was a bit longer.

I'm curious though, it seems like most of the reasons people have given for preferring a shorter SUV would also apply to the pickup. Easier to fit in garage, easier to park, shorter base provides better geometry, etc. Do all of you who think that the R1S is big enough (or a bit too big) think that the R1T should be shorter?

 

[IHScout]

I agree - I have not seen anything to hint that a longer SUV ever has been / will be planned for production. But it seems like it would have easier and more cost effective to make both vehicles the same size. So surely they considered it and chose to make the SUV smaller than the pickup.

Based on the responses in this thread, I can see why they made the SUV shorter. I seem to be in the minority for wishing the R1S was a bit longer.

I'm curious though, it seems like most of the reasons people have given for preferring a shorter SUV would also apply to the pickup. Easier to fit in garage, easier to park, shorter base provides better geometry, etc. Do all of you who think that the R1S is big enough (or a bit too big) think that the R1T should be shorter?

My wife drives an expedition LE. We love the size. It is a little queeze, but still fits in our garage. We just drove to Missouri from Arizona and everything fit in just right. We also took my niece and my MIL. ?. If Ford made an electric expedition, I would be all over it. It as of now they don't. I want an electric SUV, and right now the S is the only thing that meets my needs of space for 4 kids, towing, etc.etc. the one compromise for us will be interior storage space. That is something I am willing to live with for the R1S. We have a hitch storage rack that we have infrequently used, and we just assume we will need to use it when we are overflowing with items on our trips to Idaho, mexico and Missouri. You should also be able to load in sheets of plywood into the R1S. I will probably use our utility trailer if I want to do that though.

Sorry for the long winded response. Usually I don't take up so much space.

 

[SeaGeo]

Not specific to the R1S, but I suspect we will start to see vehicles grow in size again with the regulatory pressure for fuel efficiency removed by transitioning to EVs. Just a guess but I suspect the CUV market will shrink to replace the historic sedan market, and a lot of the mid-sized SUVs will grow back to SUV sized of the early 2000s.

Just guess.

 

[hola29]

I expect the opposite. The idea that bigger = better = more valuable is a bankrupt idea. Bigger house using more energy, building materials, and maintenance?

Bigger car requiring more mining, energy, space to keep it (work or in the community), driven a tiny fraction of the day 24/7, and usually with a single driver/nothing in the bed or storage area?

The US, Rivian's market, is still in the bigger is better mindset, but my sense is that is going to get really unpopular as we start to see the irreversible effects its going to have (and had) globally. Hopefully our kids and their kids are smarter.

Not specific to the R1S, but I suspect we will start to see vehicles grow in size again with the regulatory pressure for fuel efficiency removed by transitioning to EVs. Just a guess but I suspect the CUV market will shrink to replace the historic sedan market, and a lot of the mid-sized SUVs will grow back to SUV sized of the early 2000s.

Just guess.

 

[SeaGeo]

I expect the opposite. The idea that bigger = better = more valuable is a bankrupt idea. Bigger house using more energy, building materials, and maintenance?

Bigger car requiring more mining, energy, space to keep it (work or in the community), driven a tiny fraction of the day 24/7, and usually with a single driver/nothing in the bed or storage area?

The US, Rivian's market, is still in the bigger is better mindset, but my sense is that is going to get really unpopular as we start to see the irreversible effects its going to have (and had) globally. Hopefully our kids and their kids are smarter.

I hope you're right. And I know it's that way for some demographics (mine for example). But I really doubt it with a lot of people. Smart cars don't exist anymore for a reason (they were sort of fun to drive though!).

That being said, I know I personally have been buying smaller vehicles for 10+ years (down to a Prius C or relying entirely on car share programs), and either R1 vehicle will be the largest vehicle I've owned. Being willing to buy either is because my at home energy supply is (theoretically) 100% renewable, and I don't have the same magnitude of environmental concerns with a BEV as I do an equivalent, or even smaller, ICE. Why do I want an R1? To facilitate things that I do *sometimes* like hiking most weekends in the summer and not worrying about trails. Having more clearance in the winter to get up into the mountains to snowboard and not worry about getting high centered in the parking lot of the ski resort/mountain, and having the general practicality associated with a truck.

If I still lived in a Condo in Seattle and couldn't fit an R1T in my garage, I wouldn't get one. I am avoiding an F150 lightning because I don't want something that big though. So while I am sizing up, I still have no interest in a giant truck personally.

We'll see. Like I said, I hope you're right and the trend smaller (in general) sticks.

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