Sponsored

Not liking one pedal driving

Mysta

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Jan 30, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
482
Reaction score
553
Location
SC
Vehicles
Taycan 4S, Polestar 2, Miata ND2 RF
I think your comment gets to the disagreement here. I have never considered letting off the gas as an aggressive thing to do. We literally use "Letting off the gas." as an idiom for being non aggressive. This behavior of letting off the gas whenever something unpredictable is happening is deeply ingrained in my driving habits. It will not be re-learned easily.
You’d be surprised how fast you can adapt. Also I’d argue it’s much safer once you do. You can react faster to emergency stops.
Sponsored

 

mindstormsguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Threads
10
Messages
303
Reaction score
623
Location
Seattle area
Vehicles
Some
Do you know of a statement by Rivian that they do not use blended braking?

I ask because it was reported here that they do have blended braking capability. Assuming it is correct that they are using the Bosch iBooster system, that system includes the ESP hev, which provides blended braking capability.

"Like almost all other electric and hybrid cars, Rivian also initially uses regenerative braking as the traditional brake pedal is pushed but transition to friction braking as the need for anti-speed increases as the driver pushes down farther on the brake pedal.

Like many other car makers, Rivian is using Bosch’s iBooster brake system. Even Tesla has used this system since they introduced partially-automated driving features into the Model S although Tesla has programmed it to use only friction braking when the driver steps on the pedal, presumably to guarantee the highest level of consistent braking feel."
I wish I remembered my source. I think it was something I learned around the time of the initial press drives. I cannot remember if it was a statement from a Rivian employee. It may have been, but I don’t recall it being official Rivian documentation or something that strong.

Hopefully it was incorrect, and they can blend in regen on the brake pedal.

Edit: that particular Bosch system is kind of disappointing compared to the fully brake by wire ones :(. Only 0.2-0.3G on the brake pedal? That might explain why they prefer regen on the accelerator pedal.
 
Last edited:

Bullitt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2022
Threads
6
Messages
212
Reaction score
195
Location
Agoura, CA
Vehicles
R1T, Model 3, SC Bronson
Occupation
Product Development
Having a Tesla and having driven the R1T I can say it works great for me. It took a day to to get used to the Tesla and my wife goes between both our vehicle types with no issue. OPD is easier I think for people that don’t use the throttle in such a binary fashion or have driven a manual. I find most folks these days are either on or off the throttle and not modulating in an ICE vehicle, so there is that.
 

pklomboy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
95
Reaction score
70
Location
Las Vegas
Vehicles
R1T
Clubs
 
Maybe if someone is new to regen braking, but if you do it correctly you just start slow down as you modulate speed - to the driver behind you it should look no differently than me slowing down by gently pressing down the brake to reduce speed.

If someone is new to regen braking and they just pull their foot off the pedal, that is very much like someone pressing hard on a brake and could look like a brake check. But, like I said, that shouldn't be the case after a short time (It literally took me 15 minutes on my test drive to realize that the right way to decelerate was to gently reduce pressure on the accelerator vs just lifting my foot off).
Even with an ICE…. I rarely just take my foot off the accelerator unless it’s an emergency to brake
 

Chas60422

Well-Known Member
First Name
Charles
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
46
Reaction score
84
Location
Portland
Vehicles
Subaru outback
Occupation
Healthcare
I would say go to an empty large parking lot and just practice OPB. Keep in your mind dimmer switch as supposed to on/off. Also anticipate letting off of the accelerator earlier than before to ease into it. In some ways OPB is like switching gears in a manual car with the clutch.
 

Sponsored

OP
OP

blturner

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
200
Reaction score
163
Location
Kansas City MO
Vehicles
F150
Occupation
Space Pirate
Also I’d argue it’s much safer once you do. You can react faster to emergency stops.
I don't see that. In an emergency stop you will have to hit the actual brake pedal to stop fast enough so you have to move your foot over either way. With OPD you have to make that switch in the middle of braking. I guess your brake lights come on sooner. But I prefer the amount of precision I have in braking with just the brake pedal rather than using both pedals to manage braking.
I guess we could call it two pedal braking rather than one pedal driving. Is it simpler because you don't have to use the brake pedal to drive, or more complex because you have to use two pedals to brake.
Perhaps all the reasons why we have been taught not to do two footed driving have gone away and we should switch to that. Leave your left foot sitting on the brake pedal without pushing it. No constant brake lights, no brake wear, no brake overheating. You could brake a lot faster. My mind just spins with the implications. BTW I think this is a bad idea, just speculating.

Sorry if this post sounds argumentative. I am just thinking out loud. Perhaps I should go for a drive in my new super cool truck and clear my head. Need to do some trailer towing tests.
 

Mysta

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Jan 30, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
482
Reaction score
553
Location
SC
Vehicles
Taycan 4S, Polestar 2, Miata ND2 RF
I don't see that. In an emergency stop you will have to hit the actual brake pedal to stop fast enough so you have to move your foot over either way. With OPD you have to make that switch in the middle of braking. I guess your brake lights come on sooner. But I prefer the amount of precision I have in braking with just the brake pedal rather than using both pedals to manage braking.
I guess we could call it two pedal braking rather than one pedal driving. Is it simpler because you don't have to use the brake pedal to drive, or more complex because you have to use two pedals to brake.
Perhaps all the reasons why we have been taught not to do two footed driving have gone away and we should switch to that. Leave your left foot sitting on the brake pedal without pushing it. No constant brake lights, no brake wear, no brake overheating. You could brake a lot faster. My mind just spins with the implications. BTW I think this is a bad idea, just speculating.

Sorry if this post sounds argumentative. I am just thinking out loud. Perhaps I should go for a drive in my new super cool truck and clear my head. Need to do some trailer towing tests.
Nah - sorry - disagree completely. I don't think it's an opinion either. You have to consciously decide to be near the throttle or the brake every second. If you choose wrong and you have to emergency brake you have to let off and go to brake. Meanwhile with one pedal driving as soon as you fully lift off throttle you are pretty aggressively braking and hitting the brakes just adds to that. Sure it's a little jerky when you're getting used to it(letting off when not necessary etc) but no way are you going to brake faster traditionally. Not happening.

For one - Taycan you can choose to coast completely but in Sport modes it turns on regen braking, for two reasons, one - you will brake faster, and second, it feels more like engine braking. Both which allow auto sports to be much more effective drivers and faster around the track.
 

Zoidz

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gil
Joined
Feb 28, 2021
Threads
105
Messages
3,122
Reaction score
6,866
Location
PA
Vehicles
23 R1S Adv, Avalanche, BMWs-X3,330cic,K1200RS bike
Occupation
Engineer
... In some ways OPB is like switching gears in a manual car with the clutch.
I like this analogy (even though I have not yet driven a Rivian, lol).

Another manual transmission analogy is like fully lifting off the gas pedal in in 1st or 2nd gear, and somewhat in 3rd gear. If you are at 3500 rpm in second gear, and lift fully off, you're going to get a jolt. You learn pretty quickly in a manual transmission vehicle that the gas pedal is not an on/off switch.
 

crashmtb

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
4,642
Reaction score
7,117
Location
Man oh Manitoba
Vehicles
2002 aluminium garden shed TD5
I like this analogy (even though I have not yet driven a Rivian, lol).

Another manual transmission analogy is like fully lifting off the gas pedal in in 1st or 2nd gear, and somewhat in 3rd gear. If you are at 3500 rpm in second gear, and lift fully off, you're going to get a jolt. You learn pretty quickly in a manual transmission vehicle that the gas pedal is not an on/off switch.
I think this is probably why I didn’t have to “get used to” one pedal driving when I tried an R1.

At least I didn’t try to press the phantom clutch pedal and hit the side of the brake pedal instead, as happens whenever I drive an automatic car
 

Chas60422

Well-Known Member
First Name
Charles
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
46
Reaction score
84
Location
Portland
Vehicles
Subaru outback
Occupation
Healthcare
OPB in stop and go traffic is revolutionary. So easy and less tiring than ICE vehicles. And not needing to press the brake pedal when stopped is so nice. Just press the accelerator and go. Ease off to stop.
 

Sponsored

RivianBowerbird

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
94
Reaction score
172
Location
ATX
Vehicles
R1T
This will likely lead to many drivers behind a Rivian assuming they are being brake checked. Some people don't care about this but I definitely do. There should be a setting where the regen is just strong enough to slow the vehicle down but not enough to activate the brake lights. This is the setting I would use personally.
There literally is a setting like this - it's called the throttle pedal. You back off slowly and modulate regen exactly like you want it to happen.
 

Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Threads
13
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
2,767
Location
Park City, UT / Kemmerer, WY
Vehicles
2015 Tesla S 85D, 2019 4Runner TRD Offroad, R1T
One thing I noticed and commented on during my First Drive was that the regen was more aggressive than my Tesla. I didn’t consider it good or bad, just different and something I’d get used to just like I did in my Tesla. I can see how going from zero regen to Rivian might be alarming to the uninitiated. That being said, my adult kids drove my Tesla some when they would come to visit. They would always comment on the regen braking being “weird”, but it would take them all of 5 minutes to adjust to it.

I’ll agree with others that’s it’s a GOOD thing! Keep an open mind and adapt to it. My OCD self got to where I could time the Tesla regen to perfectly stop me just behind the car in front of me at a stop light. Make a game of it and it will help you master it.

I drive in snow a lot. I find the regen braking on my Tesla much better than my 4Runner when it come to safely managing speed or deceleration on slick roads. It’s far easier, IMO, to feather the accelerator than the brake pedal. But I drove stick shift cars for my first 10 years of driving, so learned to manage traction that way. YMMV.

I hope you come to love it, because it really is a great thing.
 

zefram47

Well-Known Member
First Name
Aaron
Joined
Feb 6, 2022
Threads
13
Messages
2,017
Reaction score
3,157
Location
Denver, CO
Vehicles
R1T, C6 Corvette GS
Occupation
Software Engineer
Clubs
 
Awful lot of people in this thread that don't seem to understand how regen and friction brakes work in various EVs. My first EV was a Chevy Spark EV and that car did actually have blended braking...poorly implemented at that. It had extremely light regen off-throttle, much like an automatic transmission car, and as you started into the brake pedal regen increased. At some point it transitioned to friction brakes, but as a result the pedal felt kinda soft/mushy and it was not very good. You could put it in L mode on the drive selector and get something similar to one-pedal driving, but even then the regen wasn't as strong as it could've been.

My MINI has one-pedal as the default and an optional lighter regen mode that is far too weak. MINI does not blend any additional regen in if you go for the friction brake pedal. As a result, you really need to be using the strongest regen mode for efficiency and just teach yourself how to modulate the skinny pedal. It really doesn't take long and I've never found myself having an issue in the gas car when I switch back. If you don't get enough braking off-throttle, go for the brake pedal. It's really not hard. The benefit with NOT blending regen and the brake pedal is that the friction brakes feel the same 100% of the time and it's always a firm pedal. And yes, true blended brakes add more regen with the brake pedal. Most EVs will still regen while on the brake pedal, but you don't get any more regen than you would off-throttle alone.

As for not hovering over the brake pedal, like we were all taught. Yes, it bothers me too. But, you have to realize that in an EV you're already decelerating significantly more than you would be in an ICE vehicle as you quickly switch to the brake pedal. So you're likely having less reaction time loss in the EV. Likewise, if you really want a mind-🤬, you can always left foot brake (LFB). You'll probably send yourself for the windshield the first time you try it because your left foot isn't calibrated to the level of effort needed (or not needed), so you'll brake much too hard. But using LFB would mean you could still hover over the brake pedal while modulating regen on the throttle. Personally, I've never found that necessary. Even while autocrossing my MINI, I was able to smoothly go from throttle to regen to threshold braking without upsetting the car. It just takes some time to reprogram your brain, and not much at that. I regularly go between my EV, a heavy AF 4Runner that doesn't go or stop quickly, and a manual Corvette without any issue modulating throttle or brake on any of them. What will really screw with your head / muscle memory is constantly changing throttle mapping in one of the vehicles. The MINI's throttle (and hence regen) mapping in Sport vs Green/Eco mode is so different that if you get used to Green mode and switch to Sport, the first stop or two you will definitely brake too hard on regen...but it still doesn't take but a stop or two to readjust. I finally said the hell with it and drive in sport mode 100% of the time. Drive the R1 in the same regen and throttle/drive mode all the time and I'm confident the muscle memory will develop quickly. The truck also has adaptive cruise even where Driver+ doesn't work...so there's no reason you can't use cruise a lot to give your foot a break with the added benefit that you can hover your foot over the brake pedal anytime you want.

Edit: I should mention that I have had the opportunity to drive a Rivian already. I found the max regen mode to feel very similar to driving my MINI in its high regen mode and thought it was really well calibrated in All-Purpose and Sport.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
 




Top