Max charging speed

[johnbro23]

I had a convo with CS about max charging speed. I back into 170kw, say hopeful they can do 300kw based on 800v architecture. They said stay tuned, hope to impress. 170kw is unimpressive IMO, especially with the large battery. Maybe no news here, but figured interesting enough to share. Anyone else have a better view on max charging rate?

(ps- mods, feel free to move this post if there’s an existing thread, I didn’t see one but I’m sure this has been discussed)

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[Autolycus]

The battery capacity is really more like 135 kWh. Also, I’m not sure what the purpose of this new thread is. They literally gave no information. But, humoring the discussion...

I calculate an average of 180kW for 20 minutes.

For comparison, I’m looking at InsideEVs data on the Model S Plaid, and going from 10 to 55% happens at an average rate of 200kW. I would prefer to see better from the R1 series, and I’ll bet it will improve as they get more data from thousands of battery packs instead of dozens.

 

[IHScout]

Sorry if this is also redundant, but can anyone speak to the charging speed from 80-100% in their current ev at a fast charger or supercharger? I have one use case where I know I will need to charge to 100% for my final leg, so we are curious as to how long it will take us to charge.

 

[aAlpine]

I also got nowhere with trying to get details from CS. Just copy paste statements from the website. The person I spoke to really didn't seem to understand what I was asking. Fingers crossed it's good news and they're just being overly cautious to start.

 

[EarlyAdptr]

I'm a newbie to EV's here, so forgive me if I'm off on this....

I thought I heard RJ say in an interview years ago that super fast charging any ev battery will degrade the battery some. Doing it many times, over and over will significantly damage it (memory issues perhaps??).

2 questions:
1) am I correct in that understanding?
2) is there something in an 800v architecture that limits this damage?

 

[Smithery]

Sorry if this is also redundant, but can anyone speak to the charging speed from 80-100% in their current ev at a fast charger or supercharger? I have one use case where I know I will need to charge to 100% for my final leg, so we are curious as to how long it will take us to charge.

Model X 100D owner here.

When we do Supercharger stops on road trips, we're almost always at a cafe or restaurant, or the type of store where we can spent unlimited time. Somewhere to really stretch our legs and relax. So we also usually take it up to 100%

We can pull up to a Supercharger with a relatively low SoC (10-20%) and get 155-160kw.
That will sustain until maybe 50-60%, at which point it ramps down to 110-120kw. Then it'll slowly ramp down from there as SoC approaches ~85%

From 85% to 100% I've seen as high as 70kw sustained, but it's usually more like 55-60kw.

Rivian numbers will almost certainly be higher than these (more cells being charged, so more overall juice going in) but I suspect the proportions of the rates will be similar.

Hope this helps.

 

[Smithery]

I'm a newbie to EV's here, so forgive me if I'm off on this....

I thought I heard RJ say in an interview years ago that super fast charging any ev battery will degrade the battery some. Doing it many times, over and over will significantly damage it (memory issues perhaps??).

2 questions:
1) am I correct in that understanding?
2) is there something in an 800v architecture that limits this damage?

There's a few things that will prematurely degrade EV batteries
1 - Leaving them too close to 100% SoC for too long
2 - Charging them too quickly for their current SoC
3 - Letting them get too close to 0% SoC

The problem isn't so much a memory effect like you might be remembering from lead acid or nicad days, but more "pushing them beyond their designed performance limits"

800V architecture helps you charge quickly more efficiently, but you can still "overdo it" in the same ways as above.

There are Tesla people (including Tesla themselves) that claim Supercharging too often will prematurely degrade the batteries.
Then there are Tesla owners who have supercharged their batteries countless times over the 500,000mi they've driven and they still hold the amount of charge you'd expect for a 500,000mi battery.

The real world answer you're looking for WRT Rivian ranged from "It depends" to "we don't know yet."

 

[IHScout]

Model X 100D owner here.

When we do Supercharger stops on road trips, we're almost always at a cafe or restaurant, or the type of store where we can spent unlimited time. Somewhere to really stretch our legs and relax. So we also usually take it up to 100%

We can pull up to a Supercharger with a relatively low SoC (10-20%) and get 155-160kw.
That will sustain until maybe 50-60%, at which point it ramps down to 110-120kw. Then it'll slowly ramp down from there as SoC approaches ~85%

From 85% to 100% I've seen as high as 70kw sustained, but it's usually more like 55-60kw.

Rivian numbers will almost certainly be higher than these (more cells being charged, so more overall juice going in) but I suspect the proportions of the rates will be similar.

Hope this helps.

Definitely helps. Thanks.

 

[nukem384]

I had a convo with CS about max charging speed. I back into 170kw, say hopeful they can do 300kw based on 800v architecture. They said stay tuned, hope to impress. 170kw is unimpressive IMO, especially with the large battery. Maybe no news here, but figured interesting enough to share. Anyone else have a better view on max charging rate?

(ps- mods, feel free to move this post if there’s an existing thread, I didn’t see one but I’m sure this has been discussed)

So funny how you are literally doing all the math for them and they pretty much said "I can't release that information" to every question you asked. I asked them some questions the other day and got the exact same answer for all of them too. Must be pretty easy to be a CS agent right now. Only have 1 answer for everything haha.

 

[nukem384]

Sorry if this is also redundant, but can anyone speak to the charging speed from 80-100% in their current ev at a fast charger or supercharger? I have one use case where I know I will need to charge to 100% for my final leg, so we are curious as to how long it will take us to charge.

Trying to charge to 100%, at least on my Model 3 takes forever. Any charger, DC fast or level 2, really doesn't want you going all the way to 100%. If you need that much charge, it is probably going to be faster to make the extra stop and charge faster when you're lower in your SOC. You also have to factor in efficiency and your driving, so even with 100%, you might not make it to your destination. Last time I tried going to 100%, I didn't make it and had to stop, wasting more time than if I had just stopped twice to begin with.

 

[SeaGeo]

Sorry if this is also redundant, but can anyone speak to the charging speed from 80-100% in their current ev at a fast charger or supercharger? I have one use case where I know I will need to charge to 100% for my final leg, so we are curious as to how long it will take us to charge.

It really varies too. Ford kneecaps the MME and basically turns it down to level 2 type speeds. Which is just stupid with the buffer that car has. Tesla is much smoother. The new Kia and Hyundai batteries are weirdly fast above 80%.

Tl;Dr TBD. We will see when someone tests out what logic rivian tossed in to the BMS for that.

What's the leg you're thinking of? Any chance it gets a fast charger soonish?

 

[IHScout]

It really varies too. Ford kneecaps the MME and basically turns it down to level 2 type speeds. Which is just stupid with the buffer that car has. Tesla is much smoother. The new Kia and Hyundai batteries are weirdly fast above 80%.

Tl;Dr TBD. We will see when someone tests out what logic rivian tossed in to the BMS for that.

What's the leg you're thinking of? Any chance it gets a fast charger soonish?

Show Low, AZ should have an EA fast charger by spring if next year. I assumed it will be at Walmart, but that's not a guarantee. We tow our trailer to the destination, which is boondocking around 63 miles away. Mixture of highway driving and low in town speeds. I'll need all the range I can get.

There are not yet any level 2 chargers, but worse case, I will rent a campsite 10 miles from our large family campsite, which has a 14-50 outlet. But, I'd rather not do that. Just kicking around ideas, bored, waiting for deliveries to start so I can see real world towing information.

 

[SeaGeo]

Show Low, AZ should have an EA fast charger by spring if next year. I assumed it will be at Walmart, but that's not a guarantee. We tow our trailer to the destination, which is boondocking around 63 miles away. Mixture of highway driving and low in town speeds. I'll need all the range I can get.

There are not yet any level 2 chargers, but worse case, I will rent a campsite 10 miles from our large family campsite, which has a 14-50 outlet. But, I'd rather not do that. Just kicking around ideas, bored, waiting for deliveries to start so I can see real world towing information.

Haha, yeah that's quite the little charging black hole! Looks like the Ford dealer has a level 2 charger they let people use. But hopefully the EA charger gets there soon!

I have a few routes I've been trying to figure out too. Unfortunately as far as I can tell there isn't squntil planned for them.

 

[Craigins]

Maybe this thread is a good place to bring up the subject.

Everyone keeps talking 300kW charging.

I'm assuming that this means you're the only vehicle charging at the location. If you had 3 vehicles you'd approach 1MW, which I can't imagine these places have that much spare capacity built in.

 

[SeaGeo]

Maybe this thread is a good place to bring up the subject.

Everyone keeps talking 300kW charging.

I'm assuming that this means you're the only vehicle charging at the location. If you had 3 vehicles you'd approach 1MW, which I can't imagine these places have that much spare capacity built in.

You raise an interesting question. I haven't actually ever heard of RA shaving shared total power between the chargers. I know Tesla does that with V2, and possible v3 chargers at a theoretical peak. Haven't heard of that either EA though.

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