Input on 14-50 outlet install

[Goose]

This is a timely post, I’m in a similar situation with my in-laws beach house (although I don’t have a Rivian/EV right now). Since I tow a 21’ boat, and park the boat/trailer in front of the garage, it would make it difficult for a charger in the garage to reach. I’ll get a 14-50 plug mounted to a support post outside when the time comes.

I was not aware all plugs were not made equal. This has been a big help.

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[Redline]

I can’t seem to find it, but does Rivian not sell extra 14-50 adapters for the mobile charger? Do I have to spend $400 and buy another mobile charger? I was thinking I could leave a 14-50 adapter plugged in at the cabin.

 

[the_mace]

Hello all! I’m the first to admit that I don’t know much about electrical work, or charging. We’re getting our R1S anytime now. We’re building a new home, and everything there is already set for two 60amp chargers, but I need some help at my parents lake home. I visit a few weekends a year, including in the winter, and I want the ability to charge at a lvl 2 pace. I was thinking of just having an electrician run a 14-50 outlet into the garage, and charge with the mobile charger.

Any advice or input on this? I won’t be here when he gives a quote, as my dad needs an outdoor outlet changed and he’s going to ask him to quote it. I need to be pretty specific with a note for the electrician. I didn’t look in the basement and we have a 200amp panel that appears to have plenty of space available.

Thanks!

I've been using a NEMA 14-50 outlet at home to charge my EVs (Telsas at first now Teslas + Rivian) since 2014. No issues. Doing the 14-50 vs the Tesla HPWC let me easily swap to a different charger when I wanted to.

 

[RedRaiderRivian]

I've been using a NEMA 14-50 outlet at home to charge my EVs (Telsas at first now Teslas + Rivian) since 2014. No issues. Doing the 14-50 vs the Tesla HPWC let me easily swap to a different charger when I wanted to.

I have been using a Lowe's builder grade NEMA 14-50 plug for 3 years charging a 2016 Nissan Leaf at a max of 28 amps but usually around 20 amps for overnight charging. When I picked up my Rivian, I realized I might be running my Juicebox charger at 40 amps for up to 10 hours. I was concerned that the builder grade plug wouldn't handle the heat.
I upgraded to a Hubbell plug for my house and installed a Bryant (made by Hubbell) Bryant 9450FR Industrial Grade 50 Amp NEMA 14-50 Receptacle, Made in USA, Single Flush, 3 Pole 4 Wire Grounding 125/250V, Black https://a.co/d/9AF9bqr plug at the family farm to use the mobile charger.

In doing research about the build quality of plugs, I tapped into my brother (master electrician and electrical engineer) who told me that the industrial grade plugs are rated for CONTINOUS DUTY and can be plugged and unplugged many times more without failure. Make sure to tell you electrician you want a continuous duty plug and BREAKER. Not all breakers are created equal and many of the cheap ones from hardware stores are not built for multiple hours of high amp loads.

 

[the_mace]

I have been using a Lowe's builder grade NEMA 14-50 plug for 3 years charging a 2016 Nissan Leaf at a max of 28 amps but usually around 20 amps for overnight charging. When I picked up my Rivian, I realized I might be running my Juicebox charger at 40 amps for up to 10 hours. I was concerned that the builder grade plug wouldn't handle the heat.
I upgraded to a Hubbell plug for my house and installed a Bryant (made by Hubbell) Bryant 9450FR Industrial Grade 50 Amp NEMA 14-50 Receptacle, Made in USA, Single Flush, 3 Pole 4 Wire Grounding 125/250V, Black https://a.co/d/9AF9bqr plug at the family farm to use the mobile charger.

In doing research about the build quality of plugs, I tapped into my brother (master electrician and electrical engineer) who told me that the industrial grade plugs are rated for CONTINOUS DUTY and can be plugged and unplugged many times more without failure. Make sure to tell you electrician you want a continuous duty plug and BREAKER. Not all breakers are created equal and many of the cheap ones from hardware stores are not built for multiple hours of high amp loads.

I should have mentioned that while I use a NEMA 14-50 in a permanent kind of manner I dont plug/unplug it at all. If you're doing a lot of plugging/unplugging into the NEMA 14-50 there can be issues with wear and tear.

 

[Redline]

This is why I’m wondering why Rivian doesn’t sell just the 14-50 adapter. You could just leave it plugged in.

 

[Gamma rays]

With regards to NEMA 14-50 outlet installation, I recently reached out to several local electricians to get bids and one of them replied that they have stopped installing them if it's intended for EVSE because my local jurisdiction requires a GFCI breaker, which will cause nuisance tripping. Does this mean my only option is to hardware it?

GR

 

[HaveBlue]

I would not go over 50A breaker/40A charging if you're using a 14-50 plug. The 50 in the name is there for a reason

Nope. He should definitely put in a 60A breaker and wire that is rated for that such as 6thhn or better. That way he can hard wire later at virtually zero cost. What plug is on the wall has nothing to do with it so long as it's 60a or less. A 14-50 will not accept an appliance that draws more. Hence the wiring is what needs protection. That's how ul listed products work. That's how nec works.

 

[HaveBlue]

With regards to NEMA 14-50 outlet installation, I recently reached out to several local electricians to get bids and one of them replied that they have stopped installing them if it's intended for EVSE because my local jurisdiction requires a GFCI breaker, which will cause nuisance tripping. Does this mean my only option is to hardware it?

GR

Some jurisdictions have adopted the new code meaning you would need GFCI breakers on any outlet 250v or less. There are specific GFCI breakers that tolerate L2 evse units if they poll for a short enough time but GFCI behind GFCI is always a problem.

 

[Eeyore]

I would probably do that as the nema 14/50 is not designed to have things plugged in and removed a lot so putting one there to leave will minimizes wear on the plug.

Just curious as to where you got data to support that opinion. I think the Hubble or Bryant outlets can handle being used. I use the outlet in my garage for charging, welding, and cooking in the summer when I want a pizza but don't want to heat up the house.

I agree. Buy a name brand, made in US receptacle. I say the same for 120 volt outlets in the kitchen, bathroom, and garage. Actually any place where you will be plugging and unplugging on a regular basis. Yes, it's tempting to buy the $.69 duplex outlet to save money, but don't. I wouldn't let my son do it when I rewired nearly all of his house. I have personal experience that backs up this opinion.

 

[Eeyore]

This is why I’m wondering why Rivian doesn’t sell just the 14-50 adapter. You could just leave it plugged in.

You mean like the one that already comes with the vehicle? They sell it in the gear shop: https://rivian.com/gear-shop/p/rivian-portable-charger

There are dozens listed of other brands listed on Amazon for much less.

 

[Eeyore]

With regards to NEMA 14-50 outlet installation, I recently reached out to several local electricians to get bids and one of them replied that they have stopped installing them if it's intended for EVSE because my local jurisdiction requires a GFCI breaker, which will cause nuisance tripping. Does this mean my only option is to hardware it?

GR

You don't have to tell them why you want the outlet. Or tell them you are planning on taking up metal art welding as a hobby. Or you want to put an electric range in the garage for cooking in the summer.

 

[Redline]

You mean like the one that already comes with the vehicle? They sell it in the gear shop: https://rivian.com/gear-shop/p/rivian-portable-charger

There are dozens listed of other brands listed on Amazon for much less.

No. That’s an entire mobile charger for $400. They don’t sell just the 14-50 adapter

 

[SANZC02]

Just curious as to where you got data to support that opinion. I think the Hubble or Bryant outlets can handle being used. I use the outlet in my garage for charging, welding, and cooking in the summer when I want a pizza but don't want to heat up the house.

I agree. Buy a name brand, made in US receptacle. I say the same for 120 volt outlets in the kitchen, bathroom, and garage. Actually any place where you will be plugging and unplugging on a regular basis. Yes, it's tempting to buy the $.69 duplex outlet to save money, but don't. I wouldn't let my son do it when I rewired nearly all of his house. I have personal experience that backs up this opinion.

I have no specs on duty cycle but have had the electricians tell me that these outlets are not designed to have plugs inserted and removed continuously and can cause them to loosen and start to arc. Using them for EV charging can be worse because of the load they are under.

Here is one place that mentions it as well. I’m not saying it can’t be done or what is considered a lot. Maybe 5 or 10 times a year not a problem. For me if I can spend 3 or 4 hundred on a charger and leave it plugged in it would be worth the piece of mind. As a matter of fact that is exactly what I did for my place in the desert.

 

[Goose]

I have no specs on duty cycle but have had the electricians tell me that these outlets are not designed to have plugs inserted and removed continuously and can cause them to loosen and start to arc. Using them for EV charging can be worse because of the load they are under.

Here is one place that mentions it as well. I’m not saying it can’t be done or what is considered a lot. Maybe 5 or 10 times a year not a problem. For me if I can spend 3 or 4 hundred on a charger and leave it plugged in it would be worth the piece of mind. As a matter of fact that is exactly what I did for my place in the desert.

I understand what you’re saying, but 240v plugs at camp sites get a lot of use over many years.

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