EV's more expensive to charge than ICE Counterparts?

[docwhiz]

I read articles like this occasionally and am genuinely interested if their conclusions jive with y'all's experience.

I traded a 2016 F150 for my R1T. My fuel cost on the F150 got around 17 mpg across 135k miles. At $3.50, that's around 20 cents a mile. With my Rivian, I am averaging 2.1 mi/KWh across 22k miles which works out to around 5 cents a mile if I charge at the house based on a trailing 12 month average electric cost. I'd have to be paying 42 cents/KWh to have parity with my old truck. The national average is 17 according to this BLS table which could be wrong looking at individual regions. The high is SOCal at 47 cents per KWh and gasoline there is substantially higher than $3.50/gal. Articles like this are aggravating to read because they key in on (from my experience) is a completely fabricated shortfall of EVs. There are enough legitimate issues with EVs that there is no reason to make up statistics to sway potential buyers. My Rivian is 100% the right car for me, but all you have to do is look at a Buccee's and you will know that our electric grid is a long way from supporting a world where most road trips are taken in EVs.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ev-charging-cost-versus-gas-car-truck-suv-2023-7

This is just EV bashing with random garbage data.
Ignore this web site.

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[NoDakEric]

As USOFROB points to, it depends on the charging situation. When I travel out of town and have to rely on DC Charging Stations, the total cost is the same as traveling with my 2015 F-150 ecoboost pickup. Being from Minnesota, I have to rely on ZEF charging stations when I travel north and those have a typical connect fee of $5. That is what pushes the total charging cost to equal gas in my ICE truck.
When I charge at home (which is 85% of the time), the 'fueling' cost is no comparison with the ev charging running approximately 1/3 of my ICE gasoline costs. This includes averaging my charger installation cost over 2 years of home charging.

 

[riviansmoke]

It all depends on a lot of factors. Electric costs are variable and are really high in NH $0.35/kWh which levels the playing field quite a bit. Down in Florida the rates are $0.108/kWh, which tips the scales in favor of EVs.

And yes there are no oil changes/brakes, but we chew through tires much quicker than ICE vehicles due to the torque/weight and they are more expensive as there aren’t as many options. But driving these are more fun!

 

[SANZC02]

That is the problem with numbers, I can make them legitimately make a case either way depending on what I want to say.

Example 1, my Jeep GC was cheaper to run
I got 22 miles per gallon, at CA gas prices of 4.89 a gallon (current price) 100 miles is $22.50.

In my R1S at 2 miles per kW and an EA price of 48 cents per kW that same 100 miles is $24.

Example 2, my Jeep GC was more to run
At a house in the IID area in the CA low desert I pay 11.9 cents a kW, that same 100 miles is $5.95

Example 3, my Jeep GC was way more to run
On average I generate 300kW a month more than I use for my house from my solar so I can drive 600 miles a month for $0

So basically in the words of Mark Twain (or Benjamin Disraeli) , there are three kinds of lies, lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

[milliemc]

I read articles like this occasionally and am genuinely interested if their conclusions jive with y'all's experience.

I traded a 2016 F150 for my R1T. My fuel cost on the F150 got around 17 mpg across 135k miles. At $3.50, that's around 20 cents a mile. With my Rivian, I am averaging 2.1 mi/KWh across 22k miles which works out to around 5 cents a mile if I charge at the house based on a trailing 12 month average electric cost. I'd have to be paying 42 cents/KWh to have parity with my old truck. The national average is 17 according to this BLS table which could be wrong looking at individual regions. The high is SOCal at 47 cents per KWh and gasoline there is substantially higher than $3.50/gal. Articles like this are aggravating to read because they key in on (from my experience) is a completely fabricated shortfall of EVs. There are enough legitimate issues with EVs that there is no reason to make up statistics to sway potential buyers. My Rivian is 100% the right car for me, but all you have to do is look at a Buccee's and you will know that our electric grid is a long way from supporting a world where most road trips are taken in EVs.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ev-charging-cost-versus-gas-car-truck-suv-2023-7

I am of the opinion that I am choosing to help the planet as well as my pocket book and driving experience. That is why we have a Tesla model 3, 2020, and have reserved an R1T. After the summer we are having, with ocean temps reaching 100°, etc. I don't know how anyone can still bedriving a gas guzzler. But, most everyone I know still does, so enough said.

 

[Supratachophobia]

I was paying $5600 per year with my Tacoma; 18mpg with hard tonneau. With my Tesla and non-peak charging rate, it's $280 per year for the same mileage. The Rivian is probably a 20-30% hit in efficiency, so I expect my electric costs to go to $400 per year.


400 is less than 5600

 

[Zoidz]

Where do they get these numbers from? I pay ten cents per kWh here so 100 miles at 2 mi/kWh is 5 dollars. That's a third of what it would cost taking their 17 dollar figure for trucks. Now let's do performance equivalents.

The closest is a TRX or a RaptorR who don't even match my performance and they get 12MPG or less on premium fuel so the disparity is much more. This guy is talking out of his ass, and he knows it which is why he didn't list the electric prices he was using to calculate these figures. It must be the highest place in the country at these rates and he is probably using average gas prices.

So he's not using like figures for his slanted bullshit article. People like this failed journalism school because they couldn't figure out what bias was and why it was bad. Honestly journalism like this is a major thing wrong with this world today and we all need to push back on it. Shit like this is why when I hear a MSM outlet complaining about "misinformation" I can't even stifle my laughter. Articles like this turn media into a joke and are the reason why misinformation spreads.

We cannot trust our news outlets to be honest so when some Karen posts on tiktok about drinking borax or whatever other stupid shit is trending it's hard to separate that from biased and fabricated garbage like this. If we know media is lying to us when it's obvious to anyone who knows then it ruins our trust in media as a whole and that is a huge issue today.

Agree, I'm at the same conclusion as you. I pay 10.4 cents/kWh and my 2,000 mile efficiency is 2.07 miles/kWh, so I'm just over $5/100 miles. My Avalanche averages 16 mpg, at $3.50 a gallon that's ~ $21 per 100 miles, but right now gas here is going up, currently $3.80 - $3.90 a gallon.

His data comes from the study but he failed to question the study and just parroted the BS. Poor journalism at it's finest.

 

[kylealden]

Yeah, this is just more grist for the haters to froth over, but nothing interesting.

Electricity costs vary. I pay $0.07/kWh in Oregon, which is well under a quarter of the equivalent price for an ICE truck (with best case assumptions for the ICE efficiency and fuel costs).

I pay closer to $0.14 in WA, so still better than half the equivalent ICE costs, but the lead is narrowing.

On road trips at DCFC stations, I often pay $0.40+; in this circumstance it's approximately the same as gas. But that's also a minority of my driving.

On road trips at RAN stations, I pay nothing.

So... pick your desired conclusions, and then I've got data to back you up.

 

[Zoidz]

That is the problem with numbers, I can make them legitimately make a case either way depending on what I want to say.
...

So basically in the words of Mark Twain (or Benjamin Disraeli) , there are three kinds lies, lies, damned lies, and statistics.

"Figures don't lie, but liars figure" - Mark Twain et al.

 

[Bmitch24]

I am of the opinion that I am choosing to help the planet as well as my pocket book and driving experience. That is why we have a Tesla model 3, 2020, and have reserved an R1T. After the summer we are having, with ocean temps reaching 100°, etc. I don't know how anyone can still bedriving a gas guzzler. But, most everyone I know still does, so enough said.

Depending on how the power is generated, and how exactly we want to account for mining emissions in a foreign country, the idea that a 7000 lb electric truck is better for the planet than a gas guzzler probably still open for reasonable debate. That doesn't even account for the increased tire wear that definitely has some impact (local tire material on the asphalt and actual tire manufacturing). Compare it to a Raptor or TRX than probably yeah, but compared to a normal half ton truck maybe not. Probably in the US where most of our generation is renewable or combined cycle natural gas we are net good from a CO2 footprint standpoint, but EVs in China that are mostly coal with far fewer emission regulations I think maybe the "EVs are green" argument falls a bit short. They are fun to drive, extremely practical, and definitely improve on local noise and air pollution. I think a reasonable argument could be made that every two car house that can afford the up front purchase should have at least one EV in the garage.

 

[Zoidz]

Depending on how the power is generated, and how exactly we want to account for mining emissions in a foreign country, the idea that a 7000 lb electric truck is better for the planet than a gas guzzler probably still open for reasonable debate. That doesn't even account for the increased tire wear that definitely has some impact (local tire material on the asphalt and actual tire manufacturing). Compare it to a Raptor or TRX than probably yeah, but compared to a normal half ton truck maybe not. Probably in the US where most of our generation is renewable or combined cycle natural gas we are net good from a CO2 footprint standpoint, but EVs in China that are mostly coal with far fewer emission regulations I think maybe the "EVs are green" argument falls a bit short. They are fun to drive, extremely practical, and definitely improve on local noise and air pollution. I think a reasonable argument could be made that every two car house that can afford the up front purchase should have at least one EV in the garage.

Here's an interesting pie chart from the PJM Grid showing the near real-time generation sources. PJM manages the High Voltage transmission network for 13 states and DC.

 

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Not clicking the link and giving them the satisfaction of ad revenue. With my old work truck I was having to stop 2-3 times a week for gas. Typically cost $200-$300 per month. Not counting all the maintenance consumables (oil, transmission fluid, gear oil, filters, spark plugs, etc.).

Since adding the Rivian to my household, by comparison, has only increased our electric bill $60/month.

None of these articles take into account time savings. With the Riv I just drive home and plug into the garage after my route. No more driving out of my way to get gas, waiting in line at the gas station, pumping gas, etc. Having an EV allows me to spend more time with my family. I would never go back.

 

[SANZC02]

Here's an interesting pie chart from the PJM Grid showing the near real-time generation sources. PJM manages the High Voltage transmission network for 13 states and DC.

Interesting chart. At least the bulk of non-renewable was natural gas, probably almost the same amount of CO2 was generated in that chart between the coal and Natural gas as the gas is almost half of the CO2 output verses coal per MMBtu.

 

[csharp]

FWIW, Source data was pulled from Michigan cost per kwh. They are currently at 19 cents / kwh. Slightly above the national average of 16 cents / kwh.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Michigan cost per kwh. They are currently at 19 cents / kwh.

Only suckers pay that much.

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