Elon Musk says that Lucid and Rivian are tracking toward bankruptcy

Chris S

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
76
Reaction score
87
Location
Dallas-Fort Worth, TX
First Name
Chris
Vehicles
'18 Model 3 Perf, '19 MX-5 Club, '22 Model Y Perf
Occupation
REALTOR

Taycanfrank

Well-Known Member
First Name
Frank
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
369
Reaction score
916
Location
Seattle
First Name
Frank
Vehicles
Taycan 4S
I mean, his statement is true but it's also not unusual. Most companies, not just car manufacturers, are technically "tracking towards bankruptcy" when they start delivering products. Until you reach full ramp up and smooth production, you're operating at a loss.

So the statement is both accurate while also being nothing to really be concerned about right now.
 

moosehead

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Threads
18
Messages
781
Reaction score
1,698
Location
Denver, CO
Vehicles
Audi S7, ‘02 Land Rover, ‘78 Jeep Wagoneer
IIRC, Musk also headlined an article last week saying Tesla, Ford, & Rivian would be the only survivors.

He also is choking on his supposed purchase of Twitter.

Let’s agree not to give him the Heimlich, eh?
 

SASSquatch

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
421
Reaction score
732
Location
Washington DC
Vehicles
BMW i3s Ford C-Max Hybrid
Occupation
Semi-Autonomous Yeti
If he wants rivian to succeed he should quit using a proprietary plug and open the supercharger network.

I have never once been upset that I dont have a twitter.
I have Twitter but I use it very sparingly but I hear you on that.

Here's the thing about the proprietary plug and where I feel deeply conflicted.

On the one hand. F*** every single manufacturer who chose not to invest in EV charging infrastructure but put out compliance EVs and waited for the infrastructure to be somebody elses problem.

TESLA bled money for years building out that network with NO subsidy and no help from other manufacturers. Why should they share it now when those same manufacturers are still not ponying up money?

On the other hand, it would be useful for EV adoption to add additional capacity but there are already places where TESLAs are lining up to charge.

If I were Elon Musk, I would open up a pilot set of chargers in locations where there is lower usage but I would charge non TESLA owners a higher rate to offset taking away a charger from a TESLA.
 

jjswan33

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joshua
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
937
Reaction score
1,882
Location
Sandy, OR
First Name
Joshua
Vehicles
Rivian R1T LE, Ram Promaster RV
Occupation
Engineer
I have Twitter but I use it very sparingly but I hear you on that.

Here's the thing about the proprietary plug and where I feel deeply conflicted.

On the one hand. F*** every single manufacturer who chose not to invest in EV charging infrastructure but put out compliance EVs and waited for the infrastructure to be somebody elses problem.

TESLA bled money for years building out that network with NO subsidy and no help from other manufacturers. Why should they share it now when those same manufacturers are still not ponying up money?

On the other hand, it would be useful for EV adoption to add additional capacity but there are already places where TESLAs are lining up to charge.

If I were Elon Musk, I would open up a pilot set of chargers in locations where there is lower usage but I would charge non TESLA owners a higher rate to offset taking away a charger from a TESLA.
Honestly I could go either way on that, would love the added charging infrastructure in more remote areas.

The one thing I would want from Elon is to be committal. If he keeps dangling the carrot out there of opening up the Tesla network that makes it hard for other companies to commit capital to new infrastructure projects and I can't blame them.
 


SASSquatch

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
421
Reaction score
732
Location
Washington DC
Vehicles
BMW i3s Ford C-Max Hybrid
Occupation
Semi-Autonomous Yeti
Honestly I could go either way on that, would love the added charging infrastructure in more remote areas.

The one thing I would want from Elon is to be committal. If he keeps dangling the carrot out there of opening up the Tesla network that makes it hard for other companies to commit capital to new infrastructure projects and I can't blame them.
I agree with you on the committal part 100% however he doesn't have a track record of doing that. I think he is trying to appear open and waiting to see what materializes.

That said, at this stage the government should be investing heavily (and we finally are) in EV infrastructure just like it did with fossil fuel infrastructure.

When gasoline vehicles were introduced in mass scale with the Model T you had to go to the grocery or hardware store to buy gas. Only after the government provided heavy subsidies did the commercial sector start building out gas station infrastructure.

We are there with EVs and we need to standardize the experience as much as possible like it is at gas stations.
 

Cosmacelf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
97
Reaction score
148
Location
San Diego, CA
Vehicles
Tesla Model X, Infiniti QX80
Occupation
Software
Tesla is in fact opening up their Superharging network to other EVs. They’ve done it in many places in Europe. My guess is they’re waiting for government incentives to do it in the US.
 

SASSquatch

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
421
Reaction score
732
Location
Washington DC
Vehicles
BMW i3s Ford C-Max Hybrid
Occupation
Semi-Autonomous Yeti
Tesla is in fact opening up their Superharging network to other EVs. They’ve done it in many places in Europe. My guess is they’re waiting for government incentives to do it in the US.
I was talking about the US - you are correct it is open in Europe but they use the same CCS standard in Europe other charges use so it is much easier from a compatibility perspective.

You are right, though, that Musk is waiting for an incentive for the US market.
 

Sully151

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
249
Reaction score
748
Location
Santa Margarita
First Name
Chris
Vehicles
2008 Jeep JkU
Occupation
Theater arts
I agree with what Elon said. Of course they are trending that way.

My issue is he no reason to say it aside from trying to damage public and investor trust in two of his competitors.

Can you imagine RJ posting on Twitter about Tesla build quality or the Mach E recall?
 

Count Orlok

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2022
Threads
33
Messages
256
Reaction score
364
Location
Wisconsin & New Mexico
Vehicles
F-150h, GLS, GLK, CubCadet LT42E, Ford P-Code
Occupation
retired
pretty clear the martin shkreli of EVs was mostly making the claim to hide this from social media feeds: Tesla hikes U.S. prices

Mr. SuperBadFeeling indeed.
 


SANZC02

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
2,015
Reaction score
3,867
Location
California
First Name
Bob
Vehicles
Tesla Model S, Jeep Grand Cherokee; (LE - R1S)
Occupation
Retired
pretty clear the martin shkreli of EVs was mostly making the claim to hide this from social media feeds: Tesla hikes U.S. prices

Mr. SuperBadFeeling indeed.
Article does not say but looks like Model X went from 114,990 to 120,990 as well. Cheapest Model 3 is 46,990
 

SASSquatch

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
421
Reaction score
732
Location
Washington DC
Vehicles
BMW i3s Ford C-Max Hybrid
Occupation
Semi-Autonomous Yeti
I agree with what Elon said. Of course they are trending that way.

My issue is he no reason to say it aside from trying to damage public and investor trust in two of his competitors.

Can you imagine RJ posting on Twitter about Tesla build quality or the Mach E recall?
Here's the problem and where Elon really just needs to just keep RIVIAN out of his mouth: You could have said the same thing about TESLA every day it was a company from (2003) all the way through the year of the Model 3 launch (2017) when they were desperately trying to ramp up production and going through much more hell than RIVIAN has.

As others have said, it is WAY too early to prognosticate on RIVIAN and just like TESLA, their trajectory can and will change as they ramp production on the R1T and get their Georgia factory up and running. The R2 is going to be RIVIAN's Model 3.

The difference with RIVIAN is that they have $18B on the books where TESLA was living on fumes at the equivalent point in its existence.
 

Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Threads
9
Messages
1,183
Reaction score
2,558
Location
Park City, UT / Kemmerer, WY
First Name
Greg
Vehicles
2015 Tesla S 85D, 2019 4Runner TRD Offroad, R1T
What are the chances that Elon is holding a short position on $RIVN?
 

SANZC02

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
2,015
Reaction score
3,867
Location
California
First Name
Bob
Vehicles
Tesla Model S, Jeep Grand Cherokee; (LE - R1S)
Occupation
Retired
What are the chances that Elon is holding a short position on $RIVN?
Possible but not a coincidence that Tesla raises their prices 5-6% a day or 2 later. More likely he was looking for a softer landing to that news since they just raised prices in March.
 

Jeeves

Member
First Name
Andy
Joined
Jun 10, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
16
Reaction score
56
Location
Ohio
First Name
Andy
Vehicles
Corvette C8, Tesla Model Y, Acura MDX
Occupation
Management Consultant
Coming from a Tesla Model Y (which I loved) Rivian already has a substantially better and more complete product. Their delivery experience is superior, customer service is superior, and they’ve solved the insurance issues. I think they’ve got the ethos of the company right overall. Charging is the one drawback. If they can ramp successfully they’ll be around for a long time.
 

 
Top