The 330-Mile Question: Where Are the 260+ Mile R2 Drives?

[rvnxyz001]

The OPs continuous posts are boring and wasted space, I get it. That said, yes the box shape truck doesn't get the same efficiency, but it should hit the efficiency they state, that's all.

Yeah, I think the R2 range discussions are over. It’s been measured and discussed at different speeds, in different modes, with different HVAC settings, tires, etc. Any new range related topics or road trip reviews with nothing but efficiency numbers and details about how and how often it was charged should be closed immediately

Sponsored

 

[mkhuffman]

Yeah, I think the R2 range discussions are over. It’s been measured and discussed at different speeds, in different modes, with different HVAC settings, tires, etc. Any new range related topics or road trip reviews with nothing but efficiency numbers and details about how and how often it was charged should be closed immediately

I follow a Gravity forum and almost nobody was reporting EPA efficiency when they first got their cars. Now that people have has them a while, it is leveling out to closer to what people expected, especially when they take long drives. Short drives are not good yardsticks.

But that's the point. And another reason these kind of threads are so frustrating.

Rivian tested the R2 per the EPA test cycle. They are not lying. Their data is the most relevant, actually. Can people achieve EPA range? Of course. But not on the highway. As it is with most BEVs.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

When exactly did I name-call?

In my world, "use that squishy noodle" is an insult, implying the other person has a less-than-fully-human brain. I acknowledge that others may see those words as neutral, rather than insulting. But it will often be experienced as insulting, especially in the middle of an argument.

@ksurfier is being accused of both using an LLM, and being a Tesla fanboy. I don't see @ksurfier's body of work on this forum that way at all.

***

This thread has "jumped the shark" for me, but it started out with a valuable insight.

Here's what I learned: Rivian's R2 range claim, likely based 100% legitimately on mixed-driving EPA methods, results in a significant overestimate of actual range for multiple reasons.

Here's what I dislike: (1) @ksurfier's insistence that everyone should acknowledge that he's right, share his sense of the issue's importance, and stop pointing out any nuances that might challenge his evaluation, isn't getting the group anywhere. (2) But neither are the ad personam attacks on alleged use of LLM and on @ksurfier's motives.

We can do better, as a community. Thanks to all!

 

[Rivian Roamer]

In my world, "use that squishy noodle" is an insult, implying the other person has a less-than-fully-human brain. I acknowledge that others may see those words as neutral, rather than insulting. But it will often be experienced as insulting, especially in the middle of an argument.

@ksurfier is being accused of both using an LLM, and being a Tesla fanboy. I don't see @ksurfier's body of work on this forum that way at all.

***

This thread has "jumped the shark" for me, but it started out with a valuable insight.

Here's what I learned: Rivian's R2 range claim, likely based 100% legitimately on mixed-driving EPA methods, results in a significant overestimate of actual range for multiple reasons.

Here's what I dislike: (1) @ksurfier's insistence that everyone should acknowledge that he's right, share his sense of the issue's importance, and stop pointing out any nuances that might challenge his evaluation, isn't getting the group anywhere. (2) But neither are the ad personam attacks on alleged use of LLM and on @ksurfier's motives.

We can do better, as a community. Thanks to all!

Squishy noodle meaning brain, our brain is like a squishy noodle. Rather than leaning on AI to do all of the thinking. Not intended as an insult. A fun way of saying "you do the thinking" rather than delegating to AI and copy/pasting.

 

[ksurfier]

I'm distressed that both sides -- including @ksurfier and @Rivian Roamer, both of whom I respect -- are punctuating substantial arguments with insulting name-calling.

If both sides are name-calling now, has this thread outlived its usefulness to the whole group?

Best to all!

That’s fine by me, I’ve said my piece and no one’s been able to refute it so what’s left can be sorted later, saying I’m using AI when I’m clearly not

In my world, "use that squishy noodle" is an insult, implying the other person has a less-than-fully-human brain. I acknowledge that others may see those words as neutral, rather than insulting. But it will often be experienced as insulting, especially in the middle of an argument.

@ksurfier is being accused of both using an LLM, and being a Tesla fanboy. I don't see @ksurfier's body of work on this forum that way at all.

***

This thread has "jumped the shark" for me, but it started out with a valuable insight.

Here's what I learned: Rivian's R2 range claim, likely based 100% legitimately on mixed-driving EPA methods, results in a significant overestimate of actual range for multiple reasons.

Here's what I dislike: (1) @ksurfier's insistence that everyone should acknowledge that he's right, share his sense of the issue's importance, and stop pointing out any nuances that might challenge his evaluation, isn't getting the group anywhere. (2) But neither are the ad personam attacks on alleged use of LLM and on @ksurfier's motives.

We can do better, as a community. Thanks to all!

Thanks, Dave. I appreciate the perspective. A small but vocal group still seems to be arguing with versions of my position from months ago, while the data has kept moving on. I started with a simple question: why does a ~330-mile R2 look more like a mid-200-mile vehicle at normal interstate speeds? The answer now appears less dramatic and more technical: EPA methodology, aerodynamic sensitivity to speed, and real-world conditions. I’ve revised my conclusions as the evidence improved. That’s generally how analysis is supposed to work.

Same with 20” vs. 21”. The public data still don’t show anything close to the expected range gap, while Roamer speed-controlled work reportedly favors the 21”. Fine. If that advantage is real, eventually the data should make the argument without needing quite so much advocacy.

At this point, debating AI, old posts, or personalities is mostly a distraction. The useful questions are how big the real highway-range gap is, why it exists, and whether tire choice matters nearly as much as speed, wind, and elevation. The numbers are getting increasingly difficult to argue with, even if arguing with them remains popular…

 

[NY_Rob]

Definitely going over 26...

 

[bbonkk]

The early 75-kWh Tesla Model 3 Long Range achieved about 600 miles at a steady 35 mph, roughly 8 mi/kWh; pretty extraordinary demonstration of EV efficiency at low speeds.

Meanwhile, with roughly a 90-kWh battery, the R2 hasn’t even made it to 300 miles in the real-world tests we’ve tracked. Different vehicles and test conditions, of course: but the contrast is pretty remarkable. Go figure.

guess what the model 3 EPA range was!!!

I interviewed Sean Mitchell back in May 2018 after the 606 mile drive around the Denver airport streets with a full battery. He did not have any air conditioning going, windows were up and drove it like he had a raw egg under the accelerator. Speed was about 32 mph average as I remember. I think it was about 20+ hours to complete. I had the same Model 3 rear drive and EPA rating was 310 miles. Here is the interview:

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

I started with a simple question: why does a ~330-mile R2 look more like a mid-200-mile vehicle at normal interstate speeds?

But you haven’t answered whether Rivian is an outlier here or if other car brands see similar trends and results.

And it’s a little weird to say you aren’t using AI when you clearly are.

 

[HaveBlue]

My R1S DM gets over 4mi/kwh on the highway... in stop and go traffic.

 

[ksurfier]

But you haven’t answered whether Rivian is an outlier here or if other car brands see similar trends and results.

And it’s a little weird to say you aren’t using AI when you clearly are.

 

[tivoboy]

Squishy noodle meaning brain, our brain is like a squishy noodle. Rather than leaning on AI to do all of the thinking. Not intended as an insult. A fun way of saying "you do the thinking" rather than delegating to AI and copy/pasting.

The colloquial phrase is “use your noodle”

 

[Rivian Roamer]

The colloquial phrase is “use your noodle”

I thought this was well known but I guess not.

 

[rvnxyz001]

started with a simple question: why does a ~330-mile R2 look more like a mid-200-mile vehicle at normal interstate speeds? The answer now appears less dramatic and more technical: EPA methodology, aerodynamic sensitivity to speed, and real-world conditions. I’ve revised my conclusions as the evidence improved. That’s generally how analysis is supposed to work.

I had never owned or even driven an EV before and honestly knew very little about EPA EV range. I started looking at the R2 because the price, size and overall package finally seemed reasonable enough for me to consider switching from ICE.

Then I watched all those reviews with "330 miles EPA, but only 250-something on the highway" and thought the range was pretty bad. That's basically what made me dig into it.

With AI tools connected to a database it's pretty easy to collect tests and owner reports now, so I started doing that and also tried to understand what the EPA number actually means.

And yeah, I was looking at it wrong at first.

330 is the combined EPA number. The EPA highway number is closer to 301 miles on the 21" and around 276 on the 20" AT. But even that does NOT mean 301 miles while cruising at 70 or 75 mph.

There isn't really an "EPA speed." The highway cycle changes speed and averages somewhere around the high 40s, then the result gets adjusted to better represent real-world driving. So even driving a constant 50 mph isn't the same test. In good conditions you could actually beat the EPA highway number at that speed.

That also means saying "253 miles at 70 mph vs 301 EPA, so it missed EPA by 16%" isn't really correct either. You're still comparing two different things.

The tests I've collected are useful mostly for getting a rough idea of range at a particular speed.

21" R2:
Around 70 mph: roughly 253-277 miles depending on the test.
75 mph: 260 miles in Car and Driver's test.
80 mph: roughly 190-216 miles in Out of Spec testing.

20" AT:
Around 70 mph: roughly 262-264 miles in the State of Charge test.

I wouldn't call any one of those "the highway range." Wind, temperature, pavement, traffic, elevation, tires, etc. can move the result quite a bit.

The Out of Spec comparison with the Model Y is more useful because they actually drove them back to back, same route, same conditions, and swapped positions. So yes, I think it's fair to say "the Model Y was more efficient than the R2 at the speeds they tested."

But that's still different from saying the R2 is universally X% less efficient than a Model Y. That's what happened in that test under those conditions.

And if you find yourself driving 80 mph every day, honestly, get a Model Y RWD. That's just not where the R2 makes much sense. Based on the 80 mph tests, you're looking at roughly 190-216 miles from 100% to empty. If you normally use something like 80% to 10%, that's only around 130-150 miles before I'd personally want to charge. If your 80 mph driving is shorter than that, fine. If you're doing long stretches like that all the time, I'd buy the more efficient car.

The other thing I still need to figure out is whether the R2 is actually worth the money for me. Something like the new Subaru or Toyota EV is around $15k cheaper and seems more efficient, while still being an outdoorsy AWD vehicle.

I get that the R2 has a lot of cool tech and features, but I also know how I actually use cars. I use maps and music. That's basically it. I don't even use cruise control, and I still look over my shoulder before changing lanes because I don't completely trust blind spot monitoring So at some point I need to decide how much all the extra Rivian stuff is actually worth to me.

So I started with "how does a 330-mile EV turn into a 250-mile EV?" Now I think that whole comparison is mostly wrong.

 

[GRSmith]

The hybrids from Toyota are the first step up in efficiency from a pure ICE vehicle. If you use it for mainly commuting short distances, maybe step up to a plug in hybrid.

I had a hybrid Camry for a lot of years and definitely saved me on gas.

With that said ICE vehicles are fairly complex between the engine and transmission. Adding hybrid electric motors and plenary gear increases that complexity. As we all know there is a lot of regular maintenance to keep these dudes running at top shape.

The electric vehicle removes a ton of complexity and maintenance, but the drawback is battery technology, battery cost and weight. The range ends up being the compromise point.

Everyone needs to get what works best for their needs.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

Weird…You should get it looked at, I’m at 200k miles at it’s been 4 MPK since I can remember…

It was a Performance Model so that's why their range was what it was.

Back in 2018 Tesla was advertising the range of the performance as the same as the base model with the smaller tires.

I had the same issue where the real range was no where close to the stated range.

With the R1T its close enough that I don't worry about it.

With the R2 I expect to go back to ignoring the stated range. My main hope is that I keep Gary happy. If Garry isn't happy than I won't be happy. Haha.

Sponsored