R1* Weight estimate and more for Quad vs Dual motors from EPA filing

[usofrob]

Source so you can follow along
Dual: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/attachments/foi_privt00-0192_appipt1-pdf.55102/
Quad: https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=57452&flag=1
Capacity https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/r1s-payload-stickers.16644/

This is the data I extracted from the PDFs and it aligns fairly well but not perfectly with the load stickers:

​	Quad​	​	​	​	Dual​	​	​
​	R1T​	R1T​	R1S​	R1S​	R1T​	R1S​	R1S​
​	Weight (lbs)​	Range standard/adjusted (Miles)​	Weight (lbs)​	Range standard/adjusted (Miles)​	Weight (lbs)​	Weight (lbs)​	Range standard/adjusted (Miles)​
20”​	6904​	​	6877​	1AP: 243/263 1Cons: 268/285 2AP: 261/275 2Cons: 295/302​	​	​	AP: 306/306​
21”​	6870​	1AP: 289/308 1Cons: 331/348 2AP: 310/317 2Cons: 336/348​	6843​	AP: 287/NA Cons: 332/NA​	6585???​	6722​	AP: 349/352​
22”​	6883​	​	6856​	AP: 274/NA Cons: 310/NA​	​	6735​	AP: 336/341​
20” (?with underbody and spare)​	7090​	​	7061​	​	6951​	6925​	​

NOTE: Most of the time when it reports the weight, it shows the same tire package with both the R1S and R1T. But sometimes it does it separate. So, that's how I filled in some of these.
NOTE2: I am not an expert at reading this, and sometimes they should what appeared to be the same configuration with multiple range tests. I marked them as 1 and 2.
NOTE3: There were also two different weights for the 20". I suspect it's related to at least the underbody shield, and possibly a spare tire.
NOTE4: For the Dual R1T 21", someone clearly put in the wrong number here. I suspect this should be 6749 based on the weight difference in the quad.

The R1S is 27 lbs lighter for the quad.
Based on this for 2 seemingly reliable data points, the dual motor is 121 pounds lighter.

This means if you want the highest payload capacity, get a Dual motor with 21" wheels. And the quad motor only weighs about one underbody shield more than the dual.

Additional info...

Max RPM:
Quad: 18000
Dual: 16000

Rated power.
Quad: 162 kW @ 6000 RPM Fronts 163 kW @ 5000 RPM Rears (ie 217 hp and 219 hp)
Dual: 264 kW @ 6000 rpm (353 hp)

I assume this means there is a different final drive ratio between the two, and the actual max speeds can be different. I saw this in part because someone showed some evidence that the max speed was related to the max RPM of the motor. But someone else said they've seen a Rivian go to like 120 mph. So, not sure what's right here.

Battery weight: 796 kg = 1751.2 lbs

Motor type:
Quad: AC Induction (EPA documentation says induction, but other sources say permanent magnet.)
Dual: AC Permanent Magnet

Edit, added 2023-07-22:

• Comprehensive: The cost of all parts and labor necessary for any defective materials are covered for:
  • (Quad-Motor) 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first
  • (Dual-Motor) 4 years or 50,000 mile, whichever comes first
• Battery Pack: Coverage includes all components inside the high-voltage battery and 70% or more of the battery capacity for:
  • (Quad-Motor) 8 years or 175,000 miles, whichever comes first
  • (Dual-Motor) 8 years or 150,000 mile, whichever comes first

Source: https://rivian.com/support/article/what-is-the-warranty-coverage-on-a-new-rivian

PS: If you have some additional info to fill in, I'll add it to the table.

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[electruck]

What's your source for the quads using induction motors? I seem to recall them being permanent magnet but traveling so not able to research that at the moment.

 

[usofrob]

What's your source for the quads using induction motors? I seem to recall them being permanent magnet but traveling so not able to research that at the moment.

https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=57452&flag=1
Page 161 (and similar). The same pages that gave me the weights.

It's also interesting that they say the power of each:
Quad: 162 kW @ 6000 RPM Fronts 163 kW @ 5000 RPM Rears
Dual: r 264 kW @ 6000 rpm

 

[Biturbowned]

Interesting, I thought quads were permanent motors too

 

[inconceivable]

Interesting, I thought quads were permanent motors too

Me too. There seems to be a bunch of articles that indicate they’re permanent magnet motors. Here is one from car and driver (listed under the specifications section): https://www.caranddriver.com/rivian/r1t-2022

Interesting that there is conflicting information out there. But I’m guessing they’re permanent magnet, otherwise I wouldn’t expect to there to be a physical disconnect for the rear motors in conserve mode. If they were induction, I believe they could just turn them off without the need for a disconnect.

Appreciate the OP digging up all the info though!

 

[mikehmb]

Ok - so looking at the Munroe teardown, they certainly look like permanent magnet motors. The presenter goes into detail about the magnet “plugs” that are injection molded vs. others in the Tesla and Mach E.

But the EPA application does specifically say AC induction. Weird.

 

[usofrob]

Me too. There seems to be a bunch of articles that indicate they’re permanent magnet motors. Here is one from car and driver (listed under the specifications section): https://www.caranddriver.com/rivian/r1t-2022

Interesting that there is conflicting information out there. But I’m guessing they’re permanent magnet, otherwise I wouldn’t expect to there to be a physical disconnect for the rear motors in conserve mode. If they were induction, I believe they could just turn them off without the need for a disconnect.

Appreciate the OP digging up all the info though!

That's a really good point that they wouldn't need the physical disconnect. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[SeaGeo]

The quad motors are permanent magnet. That may be a mistake in the paper work.

 

[usofrob]

The quad motors are induction. That may be a mistake in the paper work.

The EPA paperwork says AC Induction for quad and permanent magnet for dual.

I had a Tesla Model S 90D that I believe had two AC induction motors. And they would disable the front motors at speed without using a physical disconnect. I thought that was a feature of the AC induction motor. If Rivian is using an AC induction motor for the quads, then why wouldn't they do the same thing?

 

[SeaGeo]

The EPA paperwork says AC Induction for quad and permanent magnet for dual.

I had a Tesla Model S 90D that I believe had two AC induction motors. And they would disable the front motors at speed without using a physical disconnect. I thought that was a feature of the AC induction motor. If Rivian is using an AC induction motor for the quads, then why wouldn't they do the same thing?

I said one thing in my head and typed another. I should probably get checked to see if I just had a stroke...

I meant permanent magnet for quad.

 

[usofrob]

I said one thing in my head and typed another. I should probably get checked to see if I just had a stroke...

I meant permanent magnet for quad.

Just for future reference, do you have a source to share? I'll update the original post.

 

[usofrob]

Added differences for warranty: https://rivian.com/support/article/what-is-the-warranty-coverage-on-a-new-rivian

• Comprehensive: The cost of all parts and labor necessary for any defective materials are covered for:
  • (Quad-Motor) 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first
  • (Dual-Motor) 4 years or 50,000 mile, whichever comes first
• Battery Pack: Coverage includes all components inside the high-voltage battery and 70% or more of the battery capacity for:
  • (Quad-Motor) 8 years or 175,000 miles, whichever comes first
  • (Dual-Motor) 8 years or 150,000 mile, whichever comes first

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