Top 5 Reasons Switching to a Tesla Dominated NACS Standard is a Colossal Mistake for the Consumer

[Luckycharms783]

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[SASSquatch]

Rivian ISN"T giving up on RAN or CCS. They are building out RAN for the next few years with CCS before even considring switching or adding NACS.

 

[ohseedee]

Rivian ISN"T giving up on RAN or CCS. They are building out RAN for the next few years with CCS before even considring switching or adding NACS.

They are certainly giving up on CCS. Would be like someone’s wife filling for divorce this morning and being being like “I’m technically still married and my wife isn’t really giving up on this marriage!“ as they head off to Cabo with their new NACS boyfriend. Sorry, but it’s over…

Of course it takes time to design and build NACS into their products and of course they wont stop building cars and RAN chargers for the next many many months while they pivot. So just because they will keep delivering cars with CCS until 2025 and RAN chargers with CCS until probably 2025 or before (yet to be announced but zero chance they install a CCS RAN while selling NACS cars) does not mean they have NOT given up on CCS.

I never thought they’d give up on RAN. It was always supposed to be something different (for Adventures) but hopefully now they will stay true to that and wont have to invest in a RAN across from a Tesla SC.

Wanna meet back here again in 2025 or before once Rivian is (or announced they will be) putting in NACS is all cars and all RANs?

 

[Dirty_B]

I won

100% agree. Why are folks getting all upset just because it's Tesla. Did anyone stop filling up from BP when they dumped all that Crude in GOM? No

Ummm, yes, I did. Only recently have I started again. Matter of fact, today.

 

[SASSquatch]

They are certainly giving up on CCS. Would be like someone’s wife filling for divorce this morning and being being like “I’m technically still married and my wife isn’t really giving up on this marriage!“ as they head off to Cabo with their new NACS boyfriend. Sorry, but it’s over…

Of course it takes time to design and build NACS into their products and of course they wont stop building cars and RAN chargers for the next many many months while they pivot. So just because they will keep delivering cars with CCS until 2025 and RAN chargers with CCS until probably 2025 or before (yet to be announced but zero chance they install a CCS RAN while selling NACS cars) does not mean they have NOT given up on CCS.

I never thought they’d give up on RAN. It was always supposed to be something different (for Adventures) but hopefully now they will stay true to that and wont have to invest in a RAN across from a Tesla SC.

Wanna meet back here again in 2025 or before once Rivian is (or announced they will be) putting in NACS is all cars and all RANs?

What are you talking about? They are going to continue to build out the RAN network with CCS chargers through to 2025 assuming they follow through with that. They have plans for thousands of chargers. They are going to give their NACS equipped vehicles CCS adapters - they announced that in their ....announcement.

Rivian is planning to sell 50,000 R1 vehicles this year and double that next year. All with CCS. You think they are going to leave all of those R1s hanging?

You are smoking something.

 

[ohseedee]

They are going to continue to build out the RAN network with CCS chargers through to 2025 assuming they follow through with that.

I’m not sure you read what I wrote as this is exactly what I said. They literally announced today that CCS will NOT exist on their cars post 2025 and while they didnt announced changes to RAN plans, no chance new RANs dont have NACS by end of 2025. Not sure why you’d say that’s not “giving up” on CCS. CCS is dead even though the final life support plug has yet to be pulled. I’m sorry NACS upsets you as much as it does, but I promise you you will be totally fine in the NACS future.

Rivian did all the right things today for their current and future customers and for EV adoption in general. No one is going to be crying over CCS when zero EVs in North America are made with it in the next few years.

 

[SASSquatch]

I’m not sure you read what I wrote as this is exactly what I said. They literally announced today that CCS will NOT exist on their cars post 2025 and while they didnt announced changes to RAN plans, no chance new RANs dont have NACS by end of 2025. Not sure why you’d say that’s not “giving up” on CCS. CCS is dead even though the final life support plug has yet to be pulled. I’m sorry NACS upsets you as much as it does, but I promise you you will be totally fine in the NACS future.

Rivian did all the right things today for their current and future customers and for EV adoption in general. No one is going to be crying over CCS when zero EVs in North America are made with it in the next few years.

1.) You keep confusing the walled garden that only two manufacturers use, Rivian with RAN and Tesla with Superchargers with the port.

Find me a single complaint in this forum about RAN that doesn’t have to do with the sparsity of the chargers. Just one.

For the 500th time, your experience has little to do with the actual port and everything to do with the platform it is connected to.

2.) 21 OEMS including huge players like Volvo, VW, Hyundai/Kia have said they are going to wait and see especially Hyundai/Kia which poses the largest threat to Tesla and they specifically cited that not a single supercharger charges at 800 v and that doesn’t work for them. I don’t care what the theoretical limit is, show me a US based supercharger that is 800v. 3 OEMS have said they are adopting NACS. Do the math.

3.) All new infrastructure from the 5 billion dollars from the federal government must include CCS. Does that register for you? The other OEMS see that as a powerful incentive to not get in bed with Elon Musk because the future infrastructure must and will include CCS.

4.) To support millions of CCS cars already on the road or in the pipeline, CCS chargers will be built for years, including Rivian. Your CCS nightmare will last at least a decade or more. I suggest you take melatonin and buy some sleeping masks.

5.) CCS is “dead.” Long live CCS.

 

[cdub]

This meme comes to mind lately.

This one comes to mind actually...

 

[cdub]

4. Nobody will drive up and plug in. Everyone non-tesla will have to go through their OEM app which will be handling the processing.

I'm pretty sure they mentioned it would be built in and yes you can just plug in and charge. (Once billing is set up)

He's probably also going to be sued into the stratosphere for pumping and dumping crypto - but that's another topic.

He's pumped doge for sure. But I've never seen a record of him dumping except Tesla selling 10% of it's Bitcoin and I'd never call that dumping.

Elon is an idiot when it comes to politics and his recent Twitter posts have sometimes made me want to never buy a Tesla again. But he's really good with engineering and thinking outside the box. Tesla EVs are really good.

Remember there are a lot of really smart and good people at Tesla - it's not just him.

 

[moosetags]

Give me an adapter that allows me to charge wherever I want including SC’s and call it a day.

Then, when I am on the road and I see an EA, a RAN, and a SC station within a few miles of each other, I can decide which to go to based on ease of use, price, and how crowded it is or isn’t.

Otherwise, it would be like McDonalds saying I can’t eat their cheeseburgers because I don’t have the right utensils.

Very well put. That's exactly the way that I see it. If we want this EV thing to work, this is the way it has to be.

Brian

 

[Acoustic71]

So elon does control the NACS standard then.

"One ring to rule them all!"

 

[NY_Rob]

People are conflating the NACS port/standard with the Tesla Supercharging Platform. They are not the same

100% agreed!

Maybe people should think of it this way...
All 120V household outlets in USA are the same style/standard configuration... but just because your devices can plug in to that outlet does not mean you have permission to go plug in your loads to your neighbors 120V outlets without their consent. If everyone converts to the NACS connector, fine.. but you still need permission from the system's owner to use their equipment.

Say Tesla opens their SC network to all, and it's all good for a couple years then one day Elon poops green, gets in a mood and decides to restrict his SC network to only Tesla vehicles... well no big deal because all the other EV recharge stations will be using the NACS plug so just use those instead of Tesla's network.

 

[emoore]

100% agreed!

Maybe people should think of it this way... all 120V household outlets in USA are the same style/standard configuration... but just because your devices can plug in to that outlet you do not have permission to go plug in your loads to your neighbors 120V outlets without permission.

If everyone converts to the NACS connector, fine.. but you still need permission from the system's owner to use their equipment.

Say Tesla opens their SC network to all, and it's all good for a couple years then one day Elon poops green, gets in a mood and decides to restrict his SC network to only Tesla vehicles... well no big deal because all the other EV recharge stations will be using the NACS plug so just use those instead of Tesla's network.

if Elon does that then we will be back to the CCS vs. NACS debate all over again and that's what people are worried about with Elon in control of the "standard". He can change it anytime he wants.

 

[kvenom]

Nobody wants to use NACS because it's better, they want to use NACS to make a deal with Tesla for Supercharger access. NACS without supercharger access is pointless because all the 3rd-party chargers will still be the same unreliable mess.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I think Elon recognizes the opportunity that letting other manufacturers use his superchargers presents to Tesla. All he has to do is charge a little bit more for non Tesla and boom he has a built in incentive for his cars and every non Tesla charging at a supercharger will provide him money to expand his network making an even bigger network and a better incentive for his vehicles.

He, or whoever is actually running his company, saw the writing on the wall with the federal funding to directly compete with him by mandating a CCS standard to get the funding. So by granting manufacturers access to his platform he has ensured that his company stays relevant in the face of that funding. The amount he charges extra doesn't have to be much to give him that edge and to stay relevant.

He can also offer things like free supercharging for X amount of time for any new Tesla purchased and now that is going to be funded by every other non Tesla EV that uses a supercharger to charge. Any time you charge at one you are helping Tesla set themselves apart from everyone else. Opening up his network is actually a really smart move from a business perspective and I would have done the same thing in his shoes.

Obviously in the short term having to build out more capacity is going to cost money with all these other manufacturers using his chargers but eventually he will have enough fast chargers that everyone who wants to use one can. Then there will be enough non Tesla vehicles paying to charge that he could probably offer steeply discounted or free charging for his vehicles creating a massive incentive to go with a Tesla. Once the buildout is done the costs for just upkeep and power are significantly less.

Since part of the deal is that the third party manufacturers switch to his native port and put them in a location that fits with his chargers now by 2025 that means he doesn't need to retrofit because the vehicles like the existing Rivians with the ports in the wrong spot will never be that big of an issue due to their limited numbers and eventually they will age out of the fleet of cars all together.

With all that said I wouldn't worry about Tesla arbitrarily cutting off access to third party chargers simply because that's not in their best interest to do so. They need these users to give them money to strengthen their network and they will need them in the future to finance the upkeep and maintenance of the network so they can offer steep discounts to their own vehicles to incentivize them and increase market share.

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