Michelin Defender tires installed on 20" wheels

[HaveBlue]

You can calculate the diameter pretty close. Take the section width, multiply by the aspect percentage, multiply by two, convert to inches and add the wheel diameter.
275*.60*2/25.4+20= 32.99"
275*.55*2/25.4+21=32.91"
Is that .3% difference?
A lower aspect tire is easier to keep in balance and is more responsive on the pavement.

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[AbhorViolence]

Don't the 20" wheels weigh more than the 21's? I don't know how a larger tire and heavier wheel would be more efficient than stock 21's, yet alone a whopping 8% more...

20" weigh 38 lbs.
21" weigh 42 lbs.

When/if I ever get my truck, I plan on using 20s with 275/60/20 tires (much better tire availability and cheaper) for same 33" size as stock 21". I'm very curious the range I'll get with this setup but based on all of this I expect equal to stock 21's or hopefully slightly better.

 

[caiudalmau]

20" weigh 38 lbs.
21" weigh 42 lbs.

When/if I ever get my truck, I plan on using 20s with 275/60/20 tires (much better tire availability and cheaper) for same 33" size as stock 21". I'm very curious the range I'll get with this setup but based on all of this I expect equal to stock 21's or hopefully slightly better.

Scorpion AS+ tire swap (from 20" Scorpion AT) - WOW big difference | Rivian Forum - R1T R1S R2 News, Specs, Models, RIVN Stock -- Rivianforums.com

 

[Joel]

That’s a great tire, but pretty heavy. TireRack has it listed at 53 lbs. Just curious how that will impact range.

OEM tire it 57lbs.

 

[Redmond Chad]

Put me down as another happy Michelin Defender LTX owner. I took the Pirelli Scorpion All-Terrains off of my 20" wheels a couple of days ago, and instantly prefer the Defenders: smoother, quieter, quicker, better ride, better handling. Though to be fair, none of those a HUGE differences.

But I'm also hoping for (too early to tell) better efficiency, longer life, and lower cost.

I stuck to the OEM size of 275/65/20. I would have liked to size down, as I suspect (not positive) that would be cheaper, lighter, more efficient, and handle better. But the OEM size won't cause objections from tire shops, should cause fewer objections from Rivian, doesn't require reprogramming (or living with speedo/odo differences) and likely has a better ride and less chance of damage from potholes and such. If nothing else, a Defender in the OEM size is going to be better than the OEM Pirellis on the things I care about.

It's true that the Defenders don't look as good, and they certainly don't off-road as well - but I don't drive off-road.

With the new tires:

 

[caiudalmau]

Put me down as another happy Michelin Defender LTX owner. I took the Pirelli Scorpion All-Terrains off of my 20" wheels a couple of days ago, and instantly prefer the Defenders: smoother, quieter, quicker, better ride, better handling. Though to be fair, none of those a HUGE differences.

But I'm also hoping for (too early to tell) better efficiency, longer life, and lower cost.

I stuck to the OEM size of 275/65/20. I would have liked to size down, as I suspect (not positive) that would be cheaper, lighter, more efficient, and handle better. But the OEM size won't cause objections from tire shops, should cause fewer objections from Rivian, doesn't require reprogramming (or living with speedo/odo differences) and likely has a better ride and less chance of damage from potholes and such. If nothing else, a Defender in the OEM size is going to be better than the OEM Pirellis on the things I care about.

It's true that the Defenders don't look as good, and they certainly don't off-road as well - but I don't drive off-road.

With the new tires:

INterested in your range dif. How many miles did you get out of teh original ones?

 

[Redmond Chad]

I got less than 200 miles on the OEM Pirelli Scorpion ATs. I took off the Pirellis and sold them, and put on the Defenders after having the R1S for less than a week. And I've only had the Defenders for two days now...so I'm not going to be able to report efficiency differences, I'm afraid. But others I've seen online generally seem to report 10% or so for this swap.

 

[caiudalmau]

I got less than 200 miles on the OEM Pirelli Scorpion ATs. I swapped them for the Defenders after having the R1S for less than a week. And I've only had the Defenders for two days now...so I'm not going to be able to report efficiency differences, I'm afraid. But others I've seen online generally seem to report 10% or so for this swap.

I wanted to sell the ATs and get the Scorpion AS 275/60r20, I am in the same spot as you, only about 150 miles but, unfortunately, I didn't find a buyer in Tampa to get them right away, offered for $1100.
I don't want to keep them in my garage while finding someone to buy them. SO I decided I will just use them until they die and by that time there will probably be more people that have tried other options

 

[Carloc]

Did you have Rivian reflash the car for those 34" tall tires? Or do they work fine without any reflash?

From my experience going from 21s to 20s, you need reflashing (wrong range/distance measurments). Rivian can do it in the Mobile mode and costs $60.

 

[harsh8585]

Any Update on the Range with Defenders @Redmond Chad

 

[Redmond Chad]

Sorry, just short around - town errands and acceleration tests, so no good data.

77 miles since I put them on, 1.5 mi/kwh (lots of time in the car at home, where HVAC seems to lower the average but tires are not involved).

Range estimate on full is estimated at 303 in conserve, 273 in all purpose.

 

[harsh8585]

Yes, I am observing the same thing. I wonder if there is any benefit to using AS at all. On the other hand, I also used HVAC 8 hrs nonstop in pet mode and for 2 days it was at the PPF shop so I think I have to make a long trip to really get the accurate efficiency data.

 

[Arky]

You don’t HAVE to recalibrate from what I’ve heard. The guessometer will just be off, although, the computer should be able to figure it all out after a few days of driving. The speedometer will apparently be off by about 3% tooz

When you go to sell the car and it shows 3-6% more miles on it than you actually drove that's not ideal to me but to each their own.

For people not planning to sell it it means your warranty runs out that little bit faster

 

[Goose]

When you go to sell the car and it shows 3-6% more miles on it than you actually drove that's not ideal to me but to each their own.

For people not planning to sell it it means your warranty runs out that little bit faster

I don’t think that makes a difference personally. At high mileage is there really a difference between 100,000 and 103,000? Besides, if enough people keep doing this swap Rivian is going to build a tire swap config in the UI before long.

 

[Redmond Chad]

Any Update on the Range with Defenders @Redmond Chad

I only had my All-Terrain tires for a short time, and didn't run any tests with them - so I can't compare their performance to the Michelin Defenders.

But I did recently run an efficiency test on the Defenders. Here are my results - if (?) anyone with All-Terrains is seeing worse numbers under similar conditions, maybe switching to Defenders could help. TL/DR: 2.12mi/kWh at 75mph, 2.34 on a longer trip at lower speeds.

The car:

• 2023 R1S with 1k miles
• 20” stock wheels with Michelin Defender 275/65 tires
• Hitch cover on; no bars, pods, bikes, etc on the exterior

Controlled conditions:

• Conserve mode, auto height, soft ride, strong regen
• Gentle but not-in-the-way acceleration
• HVAC at 72
• Cruise set
• Empty car; just the driver
• Round-trip relatively-flat route; 117 miles total, including a 34 mile section at 75mph

Uncontrolled conditions:

• Temperatures ranged from 64 to 73 degrees. Car started warmer and HVAC was set at 72, so I don't think heat ever came on, and AC was minimal
• No wind or rain that I noticed. Overcast
• Traffic was pretty clear on the high-speed section. Some slower traffic in lower-speed areas (45 to 60mph limit), but mostly smooth. Not a ton of stoplights on this route (none in the 75mph section)

Here are the efficiency numbers that I saw:

75mph section:

• 34.6 miles taking 29 minutes; 71mph average (I had to turn around halfway, plus had to slow down a few times before switching lanes to pass a slower vehicle)
• 16.3kWh for an average efficiency of 2.12 mi/kWh

Whole trip (includes the 75mph section, but ranged from 25 to 60mph. Most of it 55 and above without stops):

• 116.9 miles taking 2:10; 54mph average
• 50.2kWh for an average efficiency of 2.34 mi/kWh

Note that the 20" tire swap was the only change from stock for this test.

For those interested in efficiency increases, I also ran the test again - this time with EVSportline's 20" aero wheel inserts. I got about 7% greater efficiency using those. Note, however, that others have tested them and found slightly worse performance, so you'll want to take a good look at that thread (HERE) before buying them. A few more details from me in post 215 of that thread.

75mph section with aero inserts:

• 34.6 miles taking 29 minutes; 71mph average
• 15.2kWh for an average efficiency of 2.27 mi/kWh

Whole trip with aero inserts:

• 116.9 miles taking 2:16; 51mph average
• 46.9kWh for an average efficiency of 2.5 mi/kWh

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