Having Trouble Seeing the Value of a Max Pack R1T (on 20's with pre-3/1/22 pricing)

[shrink]

TLDR:

Estimated Range of my current Quad Motor Large R1T 20's on Conserve: 313 miles
Estimated EPA Max Pack Dual Range on 20's: 335 miles

Just looking for community feedback on the Max Pack R1T. I know we're still waiting on official EPA numbers, max pack battery specs, etc, but based on the currently available information, I'm not convinced the Max Pack Dual makes any sense due to:

1) Increased Cost
2) Marginal Range increase
3) Performance reduction (both off road and on road - slower acceleration, fewer drive modes, less off-road capability).

For attempted simplicity, I'm going to limit this to my preferred configuration (i.e., with off-road package) because things get too confusing considering the different wheel options, which impact range quite a bit.

I've had a Quad/Large RT with 20's, spare, and reinforced underbody shield since 9/2022. I was originally a Max pack preorder holder and grabbed my current truck from the Shop.

My current range estimates per the car:

So, Conserve is estimating 313 miles. That's rather solid. Long story short - when younger, I was an aggressive driver and have had a lot of fun in few 2-door roadster convertibles. I've mellowed out A LOT with age. I'm usually pretty chill driving my R1T around down, but I'll occasionally drop it into Sport on a highway on ramp and floor it. Once on the highway, I'm usually driving at 70-75 mph. If I think of it, I go into Conserve mode, but usually stay in AP. I have on occasion found myself driving 90 mph on the highway. So I guess I'm pretty chill overall, but my younger driver occasionally comes out.

I do have a second preorder. It was originally configured for an R1S, but once an R1T Max Pack was configurable, I switched thinking I have the opportunity to get what I originally wanted at pre-3/1/2022 pricing. I do plan on keeping both Rivians and moving one to my house in Hawaii.

Based on some of the recent EPA ratings threads posted here, I strongly suspect Dual All Purpose is nearly equivalent to Quad Conserve.

@usofrob found, and I highlighted in this post:

R1T Dual Large on 21's has EPA rating of 352 miles
R1T Quad Large on 21's in Conserve tested at 348 miles

Again, this suggests the efficiency of Dual Motors in A/P is nearly identical to the Quad in Conserve. Heck, they're just both front wheel drive at this point at cruise speeds.

I haven't seen any data on R1T Quad Large on 20's in Conserve, but the closest thing is R1S on 20's in Conserve and the results were:

301.82 miles

Considering the R1T supposedly gets a litter better range than the R1S, then the 313 mile number I'm seeing in my truck seems consistent.

So although the Dual Motor advertised as more efficient, it seems like Quad's in Conserve provide a similar benefit.

This leaves us with the added range from the Max pack battery and with the All-Terrain Package, current estimates are at 335 miles per the configurator, or a measly 22 miles over my current estimates with my Quad Large.

With my specific configuration and pricing, it's $8000 more for the Max pack (and I am unable to configure a spare tire unless there's a truck in the Shop with the All-Terrain Upgrade). This $8000 gets me 22 more miles, fewer drives modes, slower acceleration, and less off-road capability. I also lose the yellow calipers and highlights on the emblems. Funny thing about the yellow, I personally didn't care that much about it, but my wife and I were walking out of a restaurant after dinner last night and as we approached the truck, she said, "I just love those yellow calipers."

Am I missing something in my analysis? Would love to hear other opinions.

Right now I'm leaning towards switching back to an R1S Quad Large or grabbing another R1T Quad Large. I prefer the truck in Hawaii, but my garage is really tight there. I'd likely have to park the truck outside. R1S would more easily fit in the garage.

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[Electrified Outdoors]

Large dual just got EPA rated at 352 IIRC on large pack with 21" road setup. EPA for Max pack should be pretty close to Rivian estimate of 400 mi on same setup.

At current prices it's a $10,000 upcharge for what is barely more than 14% increase in range over large pack DM. If it is indeed a 180kwh pack it's basically 45 extra kwh for $10,000. It's seems too expensive to me.

 

[brancky3]

Large dual just got EPA rated at 352 IIRC on large pack with 21" road setup. EPA for Max pack should be pretty close to Rivian estimate of 400 mi on same setup.

At current prices it's a $10,000 upcharge for what is barely more than 14% increase in range over large pack DM. If it is indeed a 180kwh pack it's basically 45 extra kwh for $10,000. It's seems too expensive to me.

I have a feeling it's not going to be a 180kWh pack. I definitely agree that it's not worth the cost; ~50 miles is not going to make any impact whatsoever to trip planning / charging.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

I have a feeling it's not going to be a 180kWh pack. I definitely agree that it's not worth the cost; ~50 miles is not going to make any impact whatsoever to trip planning / charging.

Agree...especially if towing. I know in my case I would be interesting in more range for towing but the difference is even smaller for that purpose (20-25 mi). I think for me it would take at least 25% increase for me to see the value of a 10k battery upgrade.

The standard battery on the other hand I think is an excellent way for Rivian to move more units. For folks that don't tow longer distance I think the standard pack might be just fine. If Rivian wants to push the max pack maybe bundle the upgrade with something else might be an easier way to get the customer to buy in.

 

[GRtruck]

I struggled through the same thing, then ended up grabbing a quad motor from the shop. It was less than a week. No regrets.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

When details on Dual-Max were unceremoniously published, and after getting over what felt like a sucker punch, I went through same analysis. My conclusion is I’m not going to pay $8k more for something that doesn’t feel good or too watered down… just to drive slightly further per charge. There were just too many items in the “minus” than “plus” column. Plus, availability of charging network in my state (CA) is not a great concern. I’ve changed my config to knock my window back to “processing” and will probably just pick a Quad-Large from the shop when funding timing is favorable.

 

[MidnightRivian]

Save the money for a new EV in 3 - 5 years. You will get much better bang for your buck at that time. For today just go with 21" road tires if you really care about range or 22" if you want all around blend of performance / range.

Keep a 20" AT set for when you go off-roading.

Once battery tech improves and charger density increases, you can upgrade to the next generation of electric vehicles.

Chevy already offers 450 miles range for $72,905 in a work truck trim.

https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/silverado-ev

SILVERADO EV WORK TRUCK
WORK SMARTER, DRIVE FARTHER
Ready to get things done? The Silverado EV 4WT is ready to go the distance, with an impressive 450 miles of range on a full charge.† Get electrified performance paired with electrifying capability, including up to 615 lb.-ft. of torque and 510 hp.†


https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/11/2024-chevy-silverado-ev-3wt-and-4wt-pricing-revealed/

For those readers who may be unaware, the Chevy Silverado EV WT, aka Work Truck, and the associated 3WT and 4WT trim levels are geared towards fleet buyers, but will still be available to retail buyers as well. Of these, the 2024 Chevy Silverado EV 3WT starts at $72,905, and includes a destination freight charge (DFC) of $1,895, while the Chevy Silverado EV 4WT starts at $77,905, and also includes a DFC of $1,895.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/0...ork-truck-uprated-to-450-mile-range-breaking/

When GM first announced the 2024 Chevy Silverado EV, it expected Chevy’s very first electric pickup truck to achieve a driving range of 400 miles from a full charge on Work Truck (WT) and RST trims. But now, the official numbers from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are in, and they’re more impressive than GM’s initial figures. Indeed, the EPA estimates that the 2024 Silverado EV 3WT and 4WT will deliver an estimated 450 miles of range from a full charge.

 

[DuoRivians]

Save the money for a new EV in 3 - 5 years. You will get much better bang for your buck at that time. For today just go with 21" road tires if you really care about range or 22" if you want all around blend of performance / range.

Keep a 20" AT set for when you go off-roading.

Once battery tech improves and charger density increases, you can upgrade to the next generation of electric vehicles.

Chevy already offers 450 miles range for $80,000 in a work truck trim.

https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/silverado-ev

SILVERADO EV WORK TRUCK
WORK SMARTER, DRIVE FARTHER
Ready to get things done? The Silverado EV 4WT is ready to go the distance, with an impressive 450 miles of range on a full charge.† Get electrified performance paired with electrifying capability, including up to 615 lb.-ft. of torque and 510 hp.†


https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/11/2024-chevy-silverado-ev-3wt-and-4wt-pricing-revealed/

For those readers who may be unaware, the Chevy Silverado EV WT, aka Work Truck, and the associated 3WT and 4WT trim levels are geared towards fleet buyers, but will still be available to retail buyers as well. Of these, the 2024 Chevy Silverado EV 3WT starts at $72,905, and includes a destination freight charge (DFC) of $1,895, while the Chevy Silverado EV 4WT starts at $77,905, and also includes a DFC of $1,895.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/0...ork-truck-uprated-to-450-mile-range-breaking/

When GM first announced the 2024 Chevy Silverado EV, it expected Chevy’s very first electric pickup truck to achieve a driving range of 400 miles from a full charge on Work Truck (WT) and RST trims. But now, the official numbers from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are in, and they’re more impressive than GM’s initial figures. Indeed, the EPA estimates that the 2024 Silverado EV 3WT and 4WT will deliver an estimated 450 miles of range from a full charge.

They accomplish this by putting over 220kwh battery pack, not by improving the wh/g density in the truck’s battery

 

[MidnightRivian]

They accomplish this by putting over 220kwh battery pack, not by improving the wh/g density in the truck’s battery

I personally don't care how they accomplish it as long as they keep it below $72,905

 

[shrink]

Well, after taking to my wife, we’re back in the R1S camp - mainly because it’ll fit in our tiny garage in Hawaii. I still prefer a truck out there.

No Max Pack R1T for me. Simply cannot see the value - unless one plans to tow, is okay with the 21’s, and needs the bit of extra range.

 

[Epicloop]

Am I missing something in my analysis? Would love to hear other opinions.

You nailed it except for the part about the DM also having less warranty.

At current prices it's a $10,000 upcharge for what is barely more than 14% increase in range over large pack DM. If it is indeed a 180kwh pack it's basically 45 extra kwh for $10,000. It's seems too expensive to me.

They can almost achieve that with only 1-15kw module (150kw). DM 350miles/9 modules= 38.9 miles x 10 modules 389miles. It will not be a 180 sighting cost, space, weight, efficiency, reduced payload/towing, supply chain.

They accomplish this by putting over 220kwh battery pack, not by improving the wh/g density in the truck’s battery

A truly inefficient way to accomplish the goal. It has a dismal payload further reducing tow capacity & energy efficiency when climbing. Not to mention the effect of weight on tire wear. In my opinion a poor execution.

 

[dleepnw]

Agreed. Value is not there. Especially now that the Tesla SC network will be available to Rivian charging will become easier on long road trips.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Agreed. Value is not there. Especially now that the Tesla SC network will be available to Rivian charging will become easier on long road trips.

Excellent point you make here! With much better charging options coming I see this as the nail in the coffin for max pack.

Epicloop also makes a significant point about the extra weight of the max pack affecting towing capacity.

The only way I see it as being viable are in the following scenarios:

1) Rivian reduces the price of max pack option.

2) Rivian reduces the price of max pack for upper level trims (probably still won't make sense though)

3) Rivian is able to get more weight savings and efficiency in other areas.

Problem with #2 is that a lot of folks want DM and max pack. Also, quad motor max pack would be less of a gain in range.

 

[chicagoair]

No Max Pack R1T for me. Simply cannot see the value - unless one plans to tow, is okay with the 21’s, and needs the bit of extra range.

I’ve been configured for a pure range spec for years now to accommodate our towing needs. Max Pack, 21s, etc.

One new concern I have is the increased dual motor range is achieved with turning off one of the motors in All Purpose. In Tow Mode, both motors stay engaged the whole time. In the Munro video, RJ mentioned turning one motor off was 5% more efficient, so that extra 25 miles towing with the Max Pack is taking another hit.

We have a few routes that would be marginal towing with the Large Pack, but at this point I feel like I’m dropping the extra cash for even less gain than I thought.

 

[Epicloop]

We have a few routes that would be marginal towing with the Large Pack, but at this point I feel like I’m dropping the extra cash for even less gain than I thought.

Same predicament.
Quad 328/2=164
DM 400x.95=380/2= 190
No hit to the remaining 25miles but I wonder if the lower hp/tq would cause a hit.

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