New EA Chargers Are Failing in the Cold - Fixed!!?

[Ngkgb]

Gas is under 3 a gallon here and my truck still costs pennies on the dollar compared to an ice vehicle. It’s my daily and it’s cost me 1200 so far since I’ve owned it when my much smaller Audi cost 3200 roughly for the same period of time.

How cheap is electricity where you are?

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[Tahoe Man]

Kyle has a vast amount of experience and knowledge regarding fast charging, it's basically his hobby to run around and see what chargers works and what doesn't.

The average Joe has none of this and probably doesn't want it either. So while Kyle may get from point A to point B all the time it by no means the average Joe will.

I've said it in the past he needs to sit on the passenger side and let some newbie drive from A to B with several charging stops. Only interrupt if they are on the verge of getting stranded. Those videos will be much more useful.

I appreciate he's becoming more of a EV realist instead of a EV fanatic. Hopefully others will and it will only help propel the EV movement going forward.

 

[NY_Rob]

One of the biggest problems here is that to EA, these stations are reporting that they are up and running/available (except for one that was reporting "in use" even though clearly no one was using it). So unless people actually make an effort to call in every single individual station at each site that's down EA will conclude everything is peachy with the new hardware.

 

[MIG]

It's already in their interest because they can get $$ from the infrastructure bill.

 

[manitou202]

This is pretty frustrating to see. The reports on EA performance over the past 6 months are really bad.

I've owned non-Tesla EVs for over 4 years and have never been stranded by EA. I have had to change stalls from time to time, but generally I've had a good experience. However the reports online make me nervous for sure. Luckily we don't take many road trips anymore, and this won't be a big concern for us.

The cold temperatures are pretty extreme at the moment, but it's almost a universal standard to test to -40F/C for any type of outdoor rated product. My guess is these newer chargers meet a UL spec that requires the -40F/C testing. So most likely this is an anomaly that will be fixed rather quickly. Something that probably passed testing in the lab but is now failing in the field.

Overall EA just really needs to step up the game in terms of reliability. If they were even close to Tesla's reliability pretty much all of my charging concerns would be gone. They have excellent coverage for the moment, and seem to be expanding at a good rate.

Ideally another CCS charging network would begin to expand with EA level of coverage and make this a non-issue.

Edit: Looks like all of these chargers meet the UL 2202 standard which has a -35C to 45C rating. The UL 2202 standard is for all commercial EV chargers essentially.

 

[SeaGeo]

There is a huge amount of crowd sourced data available on PlugShare. If somebody could access that, it would provide some actual data on which networks are the most reliable and trends over time/seasons. I did an informal manual search of stations across northern MN and WI. Saw reports of reduced speed in this recent cold snap but no noticeable increase in out of order units. No EA here……just slow 50 kw chargers.

PlugShare people, f you are reading could you make this happen?

Unless people are better about describing their charging session and behavior before arrival, the data about how slow it is will be nearly useless if it's cold out. The Bolt EV will peg under 20kW in near zero F and below weather, since the battery heater takes too long to put enough energy into the pack. There's no avoiding it because there isn't a way to force the car to heat up the pack besides while it's actively charging. Other vehicles are going to have similar problems with cold soaked batteries.

Without being presented diagnostic information from the charger itself, it's pretty hard to know why your charging session fails. I spoke with an on-site technician for EA one time at a station that was having issues. He was able to see why sessions were getting cancelled after a short period of time, and it had something to do with that specific station having issues relaying payment information in a timely manner to their backend system. Not information you the user is privy to.

The other issue is Plugshare's rating system is worded such that it tries to get you to rate your charge based on the entire system, not if a charger is down. There are several chargers around me that have a "10" rating that I know usually only have less than 50% of the chargers working.

I started making a separate check-in for each charger and saying I couldn't charge if they are full.

The CC readers on EA are not good, won't defend those at all. I have never used one but seen lots of people have problems. You would do better with the EA app or the EA mobile wallet token.

Apparently the CC process is harder than we'd all think. There's a pair of chargers in Coeur d'Alene now that aren't networked. One has either never worked, or has only recently worked. The other works... ok. I was talking to Branden Flasch about it because the site was getting hammered and I kind of felt bad for the owners that brought it online, and he mentioned it's weirdly difficult to get them all setup reliably even for Circle K.

 

[Dark-Fx]

There are several chargers around me that have a "10" rating that I know usually only have less than 50% of the chargers working.

I agree that plugshare having a true or false answer doesn't tell the whole story, but as long as people are still able to get a charge, it should be a true even if they had to change stations once.

 

[SeaGeo]

I agree that plugshare having a true or false answer doesn't tell the whole story, but as long as people are still able to get a charge, it should be a true even if they had to change stations once.

True = success or true = fail for you?

To me if you have to move once that's a fail (false).

 

[OutofSpecKyle]

Kyle has a vast amount of experience and knowledge regarding fast charging, it's basically his hobby to run around and see what chargers works and what doesn't.

The average Joe has none of this and probably doesn't want it either. So while Kyle may get from point A to point B all the time it by no means the average Joe will.

I've said it in the past he needs to sit on the passenger side and let some newbie drive from A to B with several charging stops. Only interrupt if they are on the verge of getting stranded. Those videos will be much more useful.

I appreciate he's becoming more of a EV realist instead of a EV fanatic. Hopefully others will and it will only help propel the EV movement going forward.

Great video idea!

 

[Donald Stanfield]

How cheap is electricity where you are?

10 cents per kWh

 

[NY_Rob]

^ never move!

 

[SANZC02]

This is pretty frustrating to see. The reports on EA performance over the past 6 months are really bad.

I've owned non-Tesla EVs for over 4 years and have never been stranded by EA. I have had to change stalls from time to time, but generally I've had a good experience. However the reports online make me nervous for sure. Luckily we don't take many road trips anymore, and this won't be a big concern for us.

The cold temperatures are pretty extreme at the moment, but it's almost a universal standard to test to -40F/C for any type of outdoor rated product. My guess is these newer chargers meet a UL spec that requires the -40F/C testing. So most likely this is an anomaly that will be fixed rather quickly. Something that probably passed testing in the lab but is now failing in the field.

Overall EA just really needs to step up the game in terms of reliability. If they were even close to Tesla's reliability pretty much all of my charging concerns would be gone. They have excellent coverage for the moment, and seem to be expanding at a good rate.

Ideally another CCS charging network would begin to expand with EA level of coverage and make this a non-issue.

Edit: Looks like all of these chargers meet the UL 2202 standard which has a -35C to 45C rating. The UL 2202 standard is for all commercial EV chargers essentially.

This is actually what I was calling out in an earlier post. People go so overboard with negativity that it is making someone with 4 years of experience using these chargers question things.

#1 rule of thumb for me, things are usually less than half as bad as people portray on these sites. Take note of what they are reporting and be aware of it but I’m pretty sure the sky is not falling and the sun will rise tomorrow.

 

[waitinginvain]

The sky IS falling if you're the person stranded.

-5 temps with a dead battery are not an inconvenience, they're a health emergency. How are you going to stay warm? Start the engine?...
Hopefully you can get a tow truck and at least get home. Otherwise you might be utilizing 911. Maybe you can duck out at a local store or restaurant, but they often close in extreme weather.

To forgive these as growing pains is asinine and enables this trend to continue. I really don't understand who anyone here thinks they're helping by trying to rationalize the situation. Tesla invested so hard in this because they knew it was one of the absolute most important things to convince people their products were viable -- and that has unfortunately given people a false sense of reality with all other manufacturers. You look at how happy existing EV owners are and assume you will be too, but the situation isn't the same.

I once charged my Tesla in 117 degrees in LA -- felt like I was in an oven -- and it still charged at over 100kWh

And I say this as someone who is VERY disappointed in Tesla since ~2020 and am even bailing on my reservation #1,006 cybertruck. And I admist I'm probably spite-ing myself with this decision. But since I already have a long-distance EV that's trustworthy, it's not a big deal.

I wouldn't advise anyone to take a long distance road trip where you're dependent on third party chargers. Unfortunately many people will do it without knowing. They're victims, not idiots, and have every right to be angry about the illusion of reliable infrastructure.

 

[SoCal Rob]

True = success or true = fail for you?

To me if you have to move once that's a fail (false).

I'd want to ask up to two questions:

• Were you able to charge your vehicle? (No/False = 0 or Yes/True =1)
  
  (If above = 1 then present follow-up question)
• Did it work properly on the first attempt? (0 or 1)

At least to me, by adding them up a score of 0 is Failure, a score of 1 is Needs Improvement, and a score of 2 is Success.

 

[jjswan33]

I'd want to ask up to two questions:

• Were you able to charge your vehicle? (No/False = 0 or Yes/True =1)
  
  (If above = 1 then present follow-up question)
• Did it work properly on the first attempt? (0 or 1)

At least to me, by adding them up a score of 0 is Failure, a score of 1 is Needs Improvement, and a score of 2 is Success.

I 100% agree. There is a big difference between the following 4 situations:

1. I charged perfectly on the first try
2. I charged perfectly but I had to switch stalls
3. I was able to charge but I had to wait due to demand and broken stalls
4. The whole stations was down and I got stranded or had to go find an alternate location.

For the first 2 I wouldn't even care. For 3 I would be annoyed but deal with it and obviously 4 is a big issue.

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