"Rivian Vehicle Access System 2.0" is coming?

So as I do periodically, I look for new applications and information for manufacturers I follow, like Rivian, into different technology areas. They recently got a new FCC certification for a "Rivian Vehicle Access System 2.0" according to this report: https://device.report/rivian-automotive/pt00745840 . No real information seems to be available anywhere besides the chipset numbers in use here.

Still excited and hopeful that this means they are re-architecting things to greatly improve the lock/unlock experience.

That is interesting. Would this require new hardware since it calls it a “vehicle access system sensor”?

Dark-Fx said:

Still excited and hopeful that this means they are re-architecting things to greatly improve the lock/unlock experience.

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I think they've alluded to this in the past. The CarKey consortium uses BLE UltraWideband, IIRC, and the current Rivian architecture doesn't include the hardware for it. While I'm sure some of us would prefer just a normal fob in the pocket with a button on the door to lock/unlock, implementing CarKey would be a good start to improving things.

COdogman said:

That is interesting. Would this require new hardware since it calls it a “vehicle access system sensor”?

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Yeah, this is likely all new hardware. Would be interesting if they made it available for retrofit. But it's likely part of their next generation experience, and considering how much they have said they are changing, I'm doubtful that will happen.

Good possibility this is for R2 with potential for R1 enhancement for future production. I think extremely unlikely this would be available for retrofit.

Owners of these new vehicles will never know our pain.

Standing in the rain waiting for the vehicle to decide if were worthy enough of it unlocking for us.

Gear Guard happily presenting videos of us standing around awkwardly waiting to get in.

Tying your shoes 6ft away from your Rivian and having it unlock and lock a few times like its telling you to hurry up.

The weird noises the vehicle makes when you pass by the vehicle with your phone despite having phone as key turned off. (Note: This was solved by turning off bluetooth access to the Rivian app)e

Putting your FOB in an RF blocking box at a location you frequently visit because Rivian only has one location where custom passive entry behavior can be set.

On a more serious note the biggest issue I have with it is there doesn't seem to be any hysteresis to the RF signal values for locking and unlocking. I expect unlocking to only happen when I'm really close, and locking to only occur if I get 2-3 times further away than the unlocking happened.

Here's a novel idea, one that we know works; just give us a fob like cars used to have with a physical key inside in case the battery dies on you. It works 100% of the time.

SDH said:

Here's a novel idea, one that we know works; just give us a fob like cars used to have with a physical key inside in case the battery dies on you. It works 100% of the time.

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Those fobs have replay attack problems, no thanks.

Dark-Fx said:

Those fobs have replay attack problems, no thanks.

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Exactly... PAAK is very secure, but it comes with its pitfalls. Regular keyfobs have been getting hit by signal cloning devices for years.

electruck said:

Good possibility this is for R2 with potential for R1 enhancement for future production. I think extremely unlikely this would be available for retrofit.

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Agree. Retrofit is highly unlikely, based on Rivian's general indication that they are evolving to Zonal Network Architecture in the R1 and R2.

Great find!

I hope they plan to do something for early adopters moving forward.

This definitely sounds like an upgrade they will utilize with their R1.5 platform mid next year that they keep bringing up on earnings calls.

Likely get 800v architecture, heat pump, and a bunch of other upgrades as well. All my speculation.

itselectric said:

Great find!

I hope they plan to do something for early adopters moving forward.

This definitely sounds like an upgrade they will utilize with their R1.5 platform mid next year that they keep bringing up on earnings calls.

Likely get 800v architecture, heat pump, and a bunch of other upgrades as well. All my speculation.

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You are overthinking the Q2 2024 updates. These are mfg/cost saving changes for the R1 that are similar to the EDV changes from Q2 2023 that yielded a 35% improvement in costs for the EDV. They are targeting a 30% improvement for the R1.

Most of it is a newer shorter wire harness and fewer chips and control modules/circuits.

I would be very surprised to see any major changes from a user perspective in the R1 platform until after they get the R2 platform off the ground.

Dark-Fx said:

Those fobs have replay attack problems, no thanks.

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You are correct, but signal range extender attach is still possible with fob, if it's left to unlock based on proximity. If you disable proximity, then the current fob is likely very safe. I don't know if the range extender attack is common with Bluetooth yet though.

Glad they are doing something. I emailed Rivian about this long time back. I am sure many others did the same. I pressed the unlock button 20 times approaching the car today, with an infant car seat and my child. It still did not unlock the rear doors and I still had to wait a few seconds while pressing the fob for it to finally unlock.

SANZC02 said:

You are overthinking the Q2 2024 updates. These are mfg/cost saving changes for the R1 that are similar to the EDV changes from Q2 2023 that yielded a 35% improvement in costs for the EDV. They are targeting a 30% improvement for the R1.

Most of it is a newer shorter wire harness and fewer chips and control modules/circuits.

I would be very surprised to see any major changes from a user perspective in the R1 platform until after they get the R2 platform off the ground.

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With the way RJ has been constantly mentioning the changes on earnings calls, it's much more than a few changes here and there for cost savings, imo.

From what they said - much/most of the cost savings for EDV came from the Enduro motors, which they've already stated they expect to translate to the R1 vehicles as well.

It is important to note they've stated they are shutting down the lines for a few weeks next year. I don't think they'd need that time period of lost manufacturing capability for a shorter wire harness and some chips/control modules.

I believe Rivian also mentioned they would drastically reduce cabling in the vehicle. A great way to do this is using an 800v architecture.

Finally - the last hint - Rivian put back on their website that the RAN chargers would be capable of 300kW+ charging in the future. What is the point of that if their own vehicles can't utilize it?

I think Rivian has dropped tons of hints about their plans and are trying to keep investors excited about closing some of the gaps, making Rivian one of the most advanced EVs out there.

Things like a heat pump and 800v architecture are just way too logical for them to not do ASAP. I think they take the short-term cost hit to upgrade to 800v, but this should allow them to build vehicles more quickly, with less materials/complexity, and will make the product more competitive. Win, win, and win.

If, for some reason, these changes don't all happen next year, I would also put my money down that they occur before 2026/2027 when R2 is released.

Yep most likely for R2 and later R1. Even if you have a traditional fob PIN to drive is critical to enhancing the security of the truck.