Rivians built with CCS charge ports will get free NACS adapter, with additional adapters available in the Gear Shop

[Sfosro]

Yeah, I want to see how it performs and what it looks like. Is it capable of 700A? Is it limited to 350A? Is it 3 feet long and floppy?

you must mean 700volts.

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[SeaGeo]

you must mean 700volts.

No. Tesla pushes like 680A to the model S. We don't know if Rivian is willing to push the R1beyond 500A on RAN or other networks that accept provide >500A, but we know the SC network is capable of it. The battery isn't getting pushed very hard at 220kw, and they've sd 300kw+ on RAN eventually. Is that for future models? Probably, but Rivian has also refused to say anything more than that they will continue to improve the charging experience.

My point really was I would hope the charging adapter isn't the limiting factor. I hope it's either the charger or the truck itself.

 

[clcbjc123]

Because Tesla carries AC or DC over the same pins, the car side of the port is set up very differently from CCS, which has dedicated pins for AC and DC. CCS cars don’t have to protect the battery from AC coming over the DC pins or DC coming over the AC pins, so the electronics are different. It also means the DC wires often go direct to the battery, with the AC wires going to the onboard charger. With Tesla, all wires come off the pins and go to a single controller that decides whether to connect the power lines from the port to the battery or the onboard charger.


An adapter is simpler because it just has to send the 2 power pins directly to the DC port. I’m kind of expecting that there will be separate adapters for L2 AC charging and DCFC.

Thank you, that actually makes sense to me.

 

[baker]

Hard to know how different the wiring is. CCS cars still need a contactor to isolate the onboard converter (and battery for that matter) from the external port. I can't imagine 480V being present at the DC pins all the time. Can someone give them a lick test and get back with us?

“Test Lick” Spoken like a true electrician

 

[moosetags]

We are very hopeful that Rivian can do whatever it takes to make this charging thing work. For us, opening up the Tesla charging network is a game changer. We are avid Airstreamers, logging well over 100 nights of Airstream camping each year. This will make cross-country Airstream travel feasible using our R1T as the tow vehicle.

Brian

 

[johnmcgrann]

The way I see it, there are still a lot of Level 2 chargers using J1772 as well as good number of DCFC using CCS. To use those with a R1 fitted with a native NACS port, you would need an adapter. To use a NACS charger on an R1 fitted with a native CCS port, you would need an adapter.

Agree with this, plus I now have a J1772 installed at home, and my wife has a Kia PHEV (J1772) which we will probably upgrade to someone's BHEV in 2-3 years. Unless all manufacturers abandon CCS in favor of NACS, I think I am pretty content with this outcome, and feel like it'll be a benefit (or at least not a liability) to have CCS onboard and a free adapter designed to Rivian's standards. I'll be especially interested to see how pricing compares between Tesla and other fast charge options.

 

[Trandall]

Because Tesla carries AC or DC over the same pins, the car side of the port is set up very differently from CCS, which has dedicated pins for AC and DC. CCS cars don’t have to protect the battery from AC coming over the DC pins or DC coming over the AC pins, so the electronics are different. It also means the DC wires often go direct to the battery, with the AC wires going to the onboard charger. With Tesla, all wires come off the pins and go to a single controller that decides whether to connect the power lines from the port to the battery or the onboard charger.


An adapter is simpler because it just has to send the 2 power pins directly to the DC port. I’m kind of expecting that there will be separate adapters for L2 AC charging and DCFC.

You bring up a very good point. There will need to be a way of rejecting an adapter from being used to to bring 400VDC from a NACS SC plug to the 240VAC Pins on a CCS1 socket as well as rejection of using a L2 NACS Plug to bring 240VAC to the DC pins on a CCS1 socket both would be very bad.
I'm also wondering how they are going to get around the locking mechanism in the handle of CCS verses on the car side for NACS. 400VDC circuit needs to be interrupted by a contactor not a slow plug and socket removal or else arcing resulting in damaged terminals and shock hazard will occur.
All I can say is this is going to be fun for the average consumer who already doesn't understand EV charging best practices... or any charging practices for that matter.

 

[AYAYRON]

I can only hope. Resale values for vehicles fitted with CCS likely to be negatively impacted as future consumers will want NACS especially if charging infrastructure goes this direction as it currently appears to be doing.

I don't think it'll matter that much, the times that you will even need the adapter is only on road trips, and that's what 1% of the usage across the board.....IF I was shopping and the CCS Rivian was cheaper I'd take that one, if they're identical in price I'd take the NACS, but even then I'd need an adapter when tesla chargers aren't available which is going to be an issue for 5-10 years before 100% of EV commit to NACS

 

[HaveBlue]

You bring up a very good point. There will need to be a way of rejecting an adapter from being used to to bring 400VDC from a NACS SC plug to the 240VAC Pins on a CCS1 socket as well as rejection of using a L2 NACS Plug to bring 240VAC to the DC pins on a CCS1 socket both would be very bad.
I'm also wondering how they are going to get around the locking mechanism in the handle of CCS verses on the car side for NACS. 400VDC circuit needs to be interrupted by a contactor not a slow plug and socket removal or else arcing resulting in damaged terminals and shock hazard will occur.
All I can say is this is going to be fun for the average consumer who already doesn't understand EV charging best practices... or any charging practices for that matter.

Yes it may need a double position double throw contactor. Simply not connecting the AC leads isn't going to assure someone doesn't try to use it for a Tesla Destination L2. However the j1772 can handle level 1 DC on the AC connectors so it's not clear to me it can't just be wired together. The car isolates the high current DC connectors from battery anyway.

Locking will be the same as the magic dock. One way to do it is when the adapter is plugged into the CCS port on the car, it will push a lever that locks the NACS into the adapter. A standard CCS interrupt button will kill the power and release the adapter.

 

[fastwheels]

The NACS adapter should come with a length of cable so the SC cable can reach the left side of the truck when parked. Otherwise, a lot of Tesla owners are going to be even more unhappy about sharing their Superchargers as we block 2 spots to charge...

 

[Autolycus]

The NACS adapter should come with a length of cable so the SC cable can reach the left side of the truck when parked. Otherwise, a lot of Tesla owners are going to be even more unhappy about sharing their Superchargers as we block 2 spots to charge...

There are lots of reasons that pigtail adapters will be very problematic and not practical. Tesla's just going to have to fix their station design to accommodate other port locations. In the meantime, Tesla drivers are going to have to get over themselves and accept that their precious network is no longer theirs exclusively.

 

[SamDoe1]

The NACS adapter should come with a length of cable so the SC cable can reach the left side of the truck when parked. Otherwise, a lot of Tesla owners are going to be even more unhappy about sharing their Superchargers as we block 2 spots to charge...

It would be orders of magnitude easier to replace charger cables with longer ones than it would be to add a length of cable to an adapter...which is likely what they will do.

 

[Milermore]

I'd be interested in the schematics supporting this. Not saying you're incorrect, but my brain is having trouble rationalizing the ability to create a relatively small adapter but the inability to do so internally through hardwiring.

In my simple brain, this isn't vastly different than replacing a home outlet with a newer model that say, supports USB-C.

I won't be entirely surprised to see someone say they came up with a DIY retrofit.
I also wouldn't be entirely surprised to see an instagram post of that R1 with melted plug next to a Tesla charger soon thereafter.

 

[tschatz]

This is a positive change overall for sure. However I'm looking at mid to late 2024 for my dual motor R1S, at least it appears that way from current run rate. My big dilemma will be whether to take a CCS model or wait for NACS (another year-plus perhaps). Not because I'm worried about the charging, I think an adapter is fine, like others have mentioned.

My concern would be perhaps years down the road with resale value. Will a CCS vehicle will be a harder sell, when all new cars are sold with NACS, and DCFC has shifted to mostly NACS?

If I could get my R1S soon, it wouldn't be a question, I'd jump on it. But if I'm on the cusp of the changeover, I wonder if waiting a few more months for NACS might be advised. Plenty of time to figure it out I guess, I just wonder if the group has thoughts on that topic of resale value.

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