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What mapping system is Rivian using?

PastyPilgrim

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As for the Alexa integration, they would have had to build voice control into the car one way or another since every car has it. Why not use an out-of-the-box solution from one of the most popular and well-supported virtual assistants that's already on the market, saving you tons of time in the process?
Using the same logic, they should have gone with Google maps and/or support AA/CP.

Overall, Rivian's choice of maps isn't a huge deal for me because I think I can work with whatever maps. Like my apartment building is new and not in my current vehicle's maps, but it's not too hard to just set my home address as somewhere nearby, and all of the highway exit numbers are wrong because they recently renumbered the local highways but it's not too hard to just use exit street names instead of numbers.

My main disappointment is that, as a startup, I'd hope Rivian was still in their crowd-pleaser mode, but some of Rivian's product and business decisions are much more in the "we know what's best for you" camp that more mature companies like Apple are part of. It's not the end of the world, and Rivian executing as a more mature company is hugely beneficial in more cases than otherwise, there's just some minor disappointments stemming from my expectations of a startup. That does make my disappointments more my fault than Rivian's though.
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Kmann1994

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Using the same logic, they should have gone with Google maps and/or support AA/CP.
Assuming that Google Maps is the only way to have a good mapping experience is a little overstating it. There are many map providers and many of them are good, and many of them aren’t made by Google or Apple. It is incorrect to assume the experience will be bad just because Rivian didn’t select the one mapping provider everyone assumes is the only good option in the market (Google maps).
 

PastyPilgrim

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Assuming that Google Maps is the only way to have a good mapping experience is a little overstating it. There are many map providers and many of them are good, and many of them aren’t made by Google or Apple. It is incorrect to assume the experience will be bad just because Rivian didn’t select the one mapping provider everyone assumes is the only good option in the market (Google maps).
That wasn't my or your point though. You suggested that Rivian selected Alexa not for political reasons but because it's robust, well-supported, and works out of the box. If Rivian took the same philosophy with navigation then they would have picked GMaps or something more robust than mapbox. It's not that mapbox can't be good, just that I expect it will take more effort to be good than GMaps would be out of the box.
 

Kmann1994

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That wasn't my or your point though. You suggested that Rivian selected Alexa not for political reasons but because it's robust, well-supported, and works out of the box. If Rivian took the same philosophy with navigation then they would have picked GMaps or something more robust than mapbox. It's not that mapbox can't be good, just that I expect it will take more effort to be good than GMaps would be out of the box.
When considering integrations though, there's more factors to consider than just "which one is most robust out of the box?". You also have to look at things like cost both short and long term, future flexibility in terms of if they want to modify or add onto the maps, etc.

I actually heard that Rivian is planning some pretty in-depth off road mapping features (you can hear RJ talk about this in the 15 minute roundtable from a while ago). Their long term strategy in this area might have been the deciding factor as to why they chose something other than Google Maps.

Of course I'm completely speculating here and connecting some dots, but I'm just trying to shine a light on how these sorts of decisions can be made. It's pretty interesting.
 

Temerarius

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You can always opt to skip the in car nav option. They do offer another option at no additional cost.

Rivian R1T R1S What mapping system is Rivian using? 1633470066191
 

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R_1_T

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Assuming that Google Maps is the only way to have a good mapping experience is a little overstating it. There are many map providers and many of them are good, and many of them aren’t made by Google or Apple. It is incorrect to assume the experience will be bad just because Rivian didn’t select the one mapping provider everyone assumes is the only good option in the market (Google maps).
I personally find the absence of Google Maps to be a positive attribute. I'm willing to guess that very few of us here have working experience with all of the possible map/navigation providers from a development perspective, and we don't know what Rivian's selection criteria was.

I will say that there's no way G will allow GMaps without taking the rest of the services, which automatically binds it to Android. The Rivian system isn't Android, so that eliminates GMaps from contention. You're basically left with TomTom, Here, and MapBox in terms of automotive-specific toolkits and support.
 

Temerarius

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I personally find the absence of Google Maps to be a positive attribute. I'm willing to guess that very few of us here have working experience with all of the possible map/navigation providers from a development perspective, and we don't know what Rivian's selection criteria was.
Plus a board member for Rivian was a MapBox guy.
 

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I will say that there's no way G will allow GMaps without taking the rest of the services, which automatically binds it to Android. The Rivian system isn't Android, so that eliminates GMaps from contention. You're basically left with TomTom, Here, and MapBox in terms of automotive-specific toolkits and support.
Tesla used google maps data and built their nav on top of it (pretty sure they still do, but I don't own a Tesla). So this is not accurate. Not to even mention that you can use google maps via apple car play on every car, which is obviously not Android based.
 

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Tesla used google maps data and built their nav on top of it (pretty sure they still do, but I don't own a Tesla). So this is not accurate. Not to even mention that you can use google maps via apple car play on every car, which is obviously not Android based.
Audi used to use Google Maps for satellite view, as well.

definitely not limited to Android!
 

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People are upset that Android/Carplay is missing even though these people to date have had zero experience with whatever it is that Rivian is developing. Not saying that Rivian walks on water or that they'll crush it where nobody has crushed it before but I think I'll wait to see what they've cooked up before I crap on it. Perhaps all cliff-jumpers should at least try sitting inside an actual Rivian and trying the system before demanding that Rivian developers simply copy what every other lemming in the industry has done.

Most people (myself among them) have experienced crappy OEM nav and music integration before. Nobody wants to go back to that. Much of it has been subsequently supplanted with (far superior) AA/CP integrations over the last several years, but let's not kid ourselves into believing that these solutions are perfect OR that we have any understanding about how much control over the UX is afforded by Google/Apple to the manufacturers. My guess is very little.

In my 2017 Audi, I use the **** out of Carplay but I don't kid myself that it's perfect. If I get a phone call, this is what Apple thinks that I want on my display, despite the fact that I'm in the middle of using the nav:

Rivian R1T R1S What mapping system is Rivian using? 1633473681189


This has happened many times right before I'm supposed to make a turn or take an exit. Screen goes 95% dark with a giant buttons to control an unsolicited phone call. And suddenly I'm responsible for taking my eyes off the road to hang up the phone navigate back to the navigation before I miss my turn...

The rear camera is also a clunky integration. Put in your destination in gmaps, reverse out of your parking spot, and the camera view remains until you're moving forward over X mph. (Why doesn't it just disable the camera when I shift into drive? IDK.) If I haven't driven forward fast enough (in a parking lot) I can get to the intersection and have no clue which way to turn.

Can Audi do anything about these annoyances/safety hazards? Maybe, maybe not. Audi made a business decision to outsource (abandon) much of their console development, turning it into a dumb monitor and then gave up a lot of control of the user experience. (They were mostly so bad at it before that I have cheered the move put up with the inconveniences.)

Waze (Google), as another example, is also pretty great if you value other people alerting you of speed traps AND you can tolerate it when a third of your screen is taken over with ads for gas stations or fast food restaurants. Google and Apple aren't dumb and these apps aren't free. They'll get their pound of flesh somehow.

I don't know jack about Mapbox but I've read that Tesla is currently using it alongside gmaps and hopes to use their own fleet data to help their cars auto-pilot their way out of parking lots. Fleet data is another huge x-factor here, which may also be something to watch with respect to the Amazon delivery partnership. In other words, more moving parts and future plans than most of us know about.

Lastly, if you haven't noticed, this Rivian "car" is trying to be something different. It's not designed just to be a grocery getter. They have even more motivation to deliver a product that's not just a copy of a freaking Honda Pilot, so maybe that's a factor in keeping the console/UX/dataset clean at the expense of our desire to customize cartoonish Waze icons.

All of this is to say, jury is still out for me. Rivian may just roll out google maps in six months and it'll be great and we'll all complain about something new. Or they may develop something better than AA integration and we'll all wonder why we wanted stupid google maps to begin with. Or maybe they'll roll out something terrible and we'll all demand google maps but demanding it at this stage is probably silly.
 

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Scott

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People are upset that Android/Carplay is missing even though these people to date have had zero experience with whatever it is that Rivian is developing. Not saying that Rivian walks on water or that they'll crush it where nobody has crushed it before but I think I'll wait to see what they've cooked up before I crap on it. Perhaps all cliff-jumpers should at least try sitting inside an actual Rivian and trying the system before demanding that Rivian developers simply copy what every other lemming in the industry has done.
As far as Navigation goes, I don't care if I have carplay or not IF their nav is as good as google maps and map and POI data updates for free. That is a big IF, but I am happy to wait and see what they do there before being upset about it. In car navigation has a ton of benefits over 3rd party solutions (most notably ability to know SOC and your energy consumption habits) so if they do it well it will be better than other options. Chances are on day 1 it will not be better though.

That said, being upset about the lack of AA/Carplay has to do with a lot more than navigation. Rivian simply will never have the same number of apps / integrations available as CarPlay does. Some people really value those items and it is important to them. It is totally reasonable and sitting in a Rivian and seeing their infotainment system will not change that impression.
 

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If Rivian’s off road trail information is as good as what our Land Rover shows I’ll be thrilled. It’s pretty rare that we trip across a trail which doesn’t display on the map in our navigation. Of course we have the latest map DVD… from 2012.

I guess there are positives and negatives to both types of systems: disc-based and Internet-connected. our ancient disc-based system will never get any better, but it doesn’t rely on anything more than GPS satellites and what’s onboard to start navigating. Wherever we are regardless of a cell signal, we can ask it to guide us home and about 15 seconds later there’s a route planned with up to 2 alternates.

Of course I’m looking forward to continuous updates, satellite view, and WAY better graphics in the Rivian.
 

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In my 2017 Audi, I use the **** out of Carplay but I don't kid myself that it's perfect. If I get a phone call, this is what Apple thinks that I want on my display, despite the fact that I'm in the middle of using the nav:

1633473681189.png


This has happened many times right before I'm supposed to make a turn or take an exit. Screen goes 95% dark with a giant buttons to control an unsolicited phone call. And suddenly I'm responsible for taking my eyes off the road to hang up the phone navigate back to the navigation before I miss my turn...
My experience with CarPlay was on my 2017 Ford Fusion Energi so I don’t know how much of this has to do with the manufacturer versus CarPlay itself. I sold it so I can’t go test, but I seem to recall that with incoming calls I could press the dedicated answer button on the steering wheel and if I wanted to get back to navigation on the main screen quickly I could just tap the Maps button. What you’re showing, above, is an outgoing call where you don’t know if or when the person you’re calling will answer. If you can’t get back to navigation by tapping the maps button because there is an outgoing unanswered call, maybe wait to place the call? Again, for hanging up a call I could just use the dedicated hangup button on the steering wheel. I thought this system worked pretty well so maybe it’s an Audi thing?

The rear camera is also a clunky integration. Put in your destination in gmaps, reverse out of your parking spot, and the camera view remains until you're moving forward over X mph. (Why doesn't it just disable the camera when I shift into drive? IDK.) If I haven't driven forward fast enough (in a parking lot) I can get to the intersection and have no clue which way to turn.

Can Audi do anything about these annoyances/safety hazards? Maybe, maybe not. Audi made a business decision to outsource (abandon) much of their console development, turning it into a dumb monitor and then gave up a lot of control of the user experience. (They were mostly so bad at it before that I have cheered the move put up with the inconveniences.)
In this area I can say with certainty that what you’re experiencing is an Audi thing: on my Ford there was a setting for backup camera delay (or similar) which determined if the display switched from the backup camera to the infotainment immediately upon shifting out of reverse or if it left the backup camera view on for a few seconds. I liked the instant switching and chose that setting.
 

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Tesla used google maps data and built their nav on top of it (pretty sure they still do, but I don't own a Tesla). So this is not accurate. Not to even mention that you can use google maps via apple car play on every car, which is obviously not Android based.

You are correct about Tesla using Google Maps as a base layer for its Navigation.
 

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FWIW, it's a gross oversimplification to say that Tesla uses Google Maps data. It's true, sort of. They use Google Maps data for some purposes. There's also very good evidence they're using OSM data for other purposes and that they might even be using Mapbox's Valhalla routing engine for most things.

As someone else pointed out earlier in this thread: Rivian is using Mapbox, who mostly uses OSM data. There are pros and cons to OSM's data. It is crowd-sourced, so it has all the plusses and minuses that come with crow-sourced data.
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