Rivian payload / towing capacity and trailer brake controller

[EarlyAdptr]

Here is what CS told me recently:

Thank you for reaching out to the Customer Engagement Center. We are happy to be here to help you along your journey with Rivian. That is a great question! Yes, Rivian vehicles have an integrated brake controller that utilizes a 7-pin connector. It will not be something that you will have to purchase separate or have installed. This will be standard for both models moving forward!

I am not an expert on trailers and towing, I currently tow a 7,000 pound boat / trailer using my Toyota Sequoia. My trailer brakes work using the trailer tongue - compression brakes. In this setup, the trailer has a simple electronic circuit so that when you're backing up (compresses the tongue) it knows NOT to apply the brakes. The signal from the truck comes through the connector for the backup lights on the trailer and to disable the tongue compression brakes.

What I believe they are saying with this statement is that the R1T/R1S have this same feature. I wouldn't assume that there's some fancy controller the vehicle provides in terms of applying the trailer brakes while moving forward.

Just my read of it, could be wrong.

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[CommodoreAmiga]

I am not an expert on trailers and towing, I currently tow a 7,000 pound boat / trailer using my Toyota Sequoia. My trailer brakes work using the trailer tongue - compression brakes. In this setup, the trailer has a simple electronic circuit so that when you're backing up (compresses the tongue) it knows NOT to apply the brakes. The signal from the truck comes through the connector for the backup lights on the trailer and to disable the tongue compression brakes.

What I believe they are saying with this statement is that the R1T/R1S have this same feature. I wouldn't assume that there's some fancy controller the vehicle provides in terms of applying the trailer brakes while moving forward.

Just my read of it, could be wrong.

Other trucks do have built-in trailer brake controllers... Ford, GMC, RAM... It's become a common and expected feature.

I'm not sure why you think Rivian wouldn't have something similar? With an 11k tow rating, a brake controller is a must-have.

Also, what you've described is NOT a trailer brake controller, and it would be inappropriate for a company to market "trailer brake controller" but only deliver what you've described.

 

[ajdelange]

I'm guessing that it will function like the Tekonsha units i.e. it will sense that it will combine brake pedal depression (or backing off on accelerator pedal) with accelerometer data to develop an analog signal to be sent to the trailer to activate electric brakes. The hydraulic compression brakes really are independent of the vehicle. When you slow the truck the intertia of the trailer operates at piston in a hydraulic system to operate hydraulic brakes.

 

[2021R1T]

In route charging with a trailer attached is going to be very problematic, to say the least. My hope is that I can get to a campground without charging and charge overnight. With that said most campgrounds receptacles/circuits are old and weak, pulling a full load continuous is also going to be very problematic.

 

[Gshenderson]

In route charging with a trailer attached is going to be very problematic, to say the least. My hope is that I can get to a campground without charging and charge overnight. With that said most campgrounds receptacles/circuits are old and weak, pulling a full load continuous is also going to be very problematic.

Not to mention that most campsites only have a single NEMA 14-50 per site. So you’re then choosing between charging your truck or running the AC in your camper.

 

[Autolycus]

Not to mention that most campsites only have a single NEMA 14-50 per site. So you’re then choosing between charging your truck or running the AC in your camper.

Nah, just plug one of these in and cross your fingers!

 

[R1Tr8000]

Agree with both, can’t count on most full hookup CGs to do everything needed / desired when pulling with an EV.

 

[kylealden]

There's a lot of doom and gloom about towing in this thread. No, the Rivian is not a cross-country freight hauler, but it can absolutely do some recreational towing.

I'm confident because I just got back from a road trip around the Olympic National Park in WA with a Model Y towing an Airstream Basecamp. It cut our range by slightly better than half vs. the rated mileage, and we had no trouble charging (only needed to unhook once). It performed incredibly well despite >110 degree temperatures. An R1T should be better in every way.

No, you probably won't be shotgunning 11,000lbs from coast to coast, but you can have some fun.

For the brake controller, we found a wireless one (accelerometer-based with adjustable sensitivity) that we were really happy with - I dialed it down to the lowest level to avoid interfering with regen as much as possible.

 

[kneebuster]

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned (maybe I missed it) is the effect of frontal area. Weight is an issue during acceleration and hills, but frontal area will always matter, even more so as speed increases and into a wind. Something like a TrailManor will have much less impact on range than a traditional travel trailer, even with similar weights.

 

[ajdelange]

There's a lot of doom and gloom about towing in this thread.

It's entirely justified. If you tow something with large Cd and large frontal area it's going to cut range way down. If you tow something with low Cd and moderate A, as you have done, you are going to lose about hald your range as you have just demonstrated.

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned (maybe I missed it) is the effect of frontal area.

There. I just mentioned it as I have done on every other post, this forum or other, in which I have posted on this subject. What a trailer does to your unfettered range depends on how many Wh it takes to pull the trailer a mile relative to how many Wh it takes to pull the truck a mile.

 

[kylealden]

It's entirely justified.

Sure, as you mentioned, the impact will depend on the aerodynamics of your trailer, the weight, and speed, among other factors. My point is simply that there are many cases, even with relatively large trailers, where it's feasible for recreational or occasional hauling - whether it's moving a boat across the state, moving house, towing a travel trailer, etc.

It's probably not the right vehicle if you're frequently taking a toy hauler from Seattle to Moab, but that doesn't mean we should dismiss it out of hand. If I learned one thing in towing the Y, it's that everyone dismisses it out of hand because they've been told electric towing is impossible. It's certainly not.

 

[ajdelange]

If I learned one thing in towing the Y, it's that everyone dismisses it out of hand because they've been told electric towing is impossible. It's certainly not.

I have repeated over and over again what I put in #55: if Cd*A is small enough then it is quite possible. I've done Monte Carlo simulations and numerous calculations showing that on average you'll probably lose 50% just as you found to be the case. How many will click on a YouTube video titled "Monte Carlo Simulation by Retired Engineer Shows Towing Feasible" rather than "TESLA TOWING: DISASTER!" posted by a self appointed BEV expert?

It's very hard to counter negativity like this once it gets out there. The best we can do is if people like you continue to publish you real world experiences.

 

[JeremyP]

I'm glad I'm only 90 miles from Moab! Frontal area is a huge factor; our previous trailer was a trailmanor 3326 which was about the same weight as our current trailer, but the full height trailer makes a huge difference on the highway. I've thought about experimenting with making a radiused front and shortened tail cone for our trailer...

 

[Trandall]

@kylealden, " . It performed incredibly well despite >110 degree temperatures. "
110 degrees in the Olympic National Park is alarming.

@ajdelange " How many will click on a YouTube video titled "Monte Carlo Simulation by Retired Engineer Shows Towing Feasible" rather than "TESLA TOWING: DISASTER!"
you just have to beat them at their own game and name it "Model Y: Towing Monster!" Then proceed to shape their minds with fact based science in true "retired Engineer" fashion.

 

[Zoidz]

kylealden said:

There's a lot of doom and gloom about towing in this thread.

It's entirely justified.

*Doom and Gloom* about towing limitations is not justified. Buyers simply need to accept the fact that towing range will be 50% or less. If it doesn't fit your use case, move on. If that's doom and gloom, you are taking it way too personal.

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