Range & Battery Pack Thoughts

[Crotchetyoldfart]

I've read a lot of the forums speaking about the merits and value of the Large and Max battery packs. As a Tesla S owner, I just want to point out some facts that may have been overlooked in these discussions:

- It is advised that you not charge a battery more than 80% or run below 20%-30% to achieve the best battery life.

- Assuming this is a general practice, which it is for me, that means that using a 315 max range on the L pack, the 'normal' fully charged range is ~250 miles, and the 'normal' empty miles left in the tank would be ~75 (assuming 25% and all rounded numbers).

- So, this means that a normal 'tank' has about 175 miles.

- All of this assumes the best weather, best wheel/tire choice, road quality, traffic, driving style and minimal or no use of any accessories (A/C, heat, heated seats, power ports, sentry features, adjustable suspension), all of which drain the battery and are not included in range estimates.

- Also remember that the quoted range decreases with age (usage, charging cycles and charging behavior), so this 175 miles is an optimistic number.

- As far as charging on the road, let's consider how many chargers will be needed if it takes 45 minutes for a 75% fill. And my experience is that this rate depends on # of vehicles charging. Compare this to 5 minutes for an ICE. I assume that there will be 9x the number of chargers as there currently are pumps?

- Other's charging practices and experiences may differ, but all of this suggests that basing your decisions on 315 miles between charges may be optimistic.

To be clear, I really enjoy my EV, and am very much looking forward to eventually, getting a Rivian with a Max battery pack or another EV truck. However, I do recognize there are many limitations. Getting another 50 +/- miles or 30% for the Max battery was an easy decision and will give me a tremendous amount of peace of mind. YMMV.

Even though I have never expected reliable delivery windows from a company that misses almost every manufacturing forecast it has made, I am profoundly disappointed with Rivian's decision on how they are prioritizing manufacture, their overly Tesla-like lack of transparency and the half-truths ("we're doing it for the climate") when they do communicate.

Sponsored

 

[pcrampton]

Thanks for those thoughts.

I'm new to EVs and I'm trying to learn how to make the battery of my R1S (2H of 2023) last as long as possible.

Having said that, I do not put a lot of miles on my cars. Especially with COVID-19. I work from home too.

So, I've had my leased Volvo XC90 6 seat config SUV for 26 months and have put less than 10k miles on it. (It came with some miles on it but I don't remember how many.)

So, here's my question: What is the best way for me to keep my R1S battery in top shape if I don't drive more than 20 miles per week? I do longer drives 2 or 3 times per year.

Suggestions?

 

[SeaGeo]

Thanks for those thoughts.

I'm new to EVs and I'm trying to learn how to make the battery of my R1S (2H of 2023) last as long as possible.

Having said that, I do not put a lot of miles on my cars. Especially with COVID-19. I work from home too.

So, I've had my leased Volvo XC90 6 seat config SUV for 26 months and have put less than 10k miles on it. (It came with some miles on it but I don't remember how many.)

So, here's my question: What is the best way for me to keep my R1S battery in top shape if I don't drive more than 20 miles per week? I do longer drives 2 or 3 times per year.

Suggestions?

The Rivian has a daily setting that sets your charge limit to 70%. The intent there is to keep it in a "happy" place.

When you go on a longer trip feel free to change it to the other two settings (trip and extended?).

The battery management system should generally take care of the rest. I'd edit OP's post to say just not to leave the car below 20% and above 85% for a long period of time. But if you're driving and charging, I'd feel free to drive to a lower state of charge to maximize range and charging speeds. That hasn't been shown to materially impact the battery.

Oh, and only use fast charging when you need it. So generally road tripping.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

I've read a lot of the forums speaking about the merits and value of the Large and Max battery packs. As a Tesla S owner, I just want to point out some facts that may have been overlooked in these discussions:

- It is advised that you not charge a battery more than 80% or run below 20%-30% to achieve the best battery life.

- Assuming this is a general practice, which it is for me, that means that using a 315 max range on the L pack, the 'normal' fully charged range is ~250 miles, and the 'normal' empty miles left in the tank would be ~75 (assuming 25% and all rounded numbers).

- So, this means that a normal 'tank' has about 175 miles.

- All of this assumes the best weather, best wheel/tire choice, road quality, traffic, driving style and minimal or no use of any accessories (A/C, heat, heated seats, power ports, sentry features, adjustable suspension), all of which drain the battery and are not included in range estimates.

- Also remember that the quoted range decreases with age (usage, charging cycles and charging behavior), so this 175 miles is an optimistic number.

- As far as charging on the road, let's consider how many chargers will be needed if it takes 45 minutes for a 75% fill. And my experience is that this rate depends on # of vehicles charging. Compare this to 5 minutes for an ICE. I assume that there will be 9x the number of chargers as there currently are pumps?

- Other's charging practices and experiences may differ, but all of this suggests that basing your decisions on 315 miles between charges may be optimistic.

To be clear, I really enjoy my EV, and am very much looking forward to eventually, getting a Rivian with a Max battery pack or another EV truck. However, I do recognize there are many limitations. Getting another 50 +/- miles or 30% for the Max battery was an easy decision and will give me a tremendous amount of peace of mind. YMMV.

Even though I have never expected reliable delivery windows from a company that misses almost every manufacturing forecast it has made, I am profoundly disappointed with Rivian's decision on how they are prioritizing manufacture, their overly Tesla-like lack of transparency and the half-truths ("we're doing it for the climate") when they do communicate.

Most people don't drive more than 175 miles in a single day, so for normal use that's more than adequate. Rivian specifically has battery modes for different situations that maintains good battery life for daily driving around town. There is a trip mode for the situations where you would expect to drive more than 175 miles in a day that would increase the allowed SoC up to 100% the night before a longer trip.

Assuming you get it down to 10% on the first leg of your trip, that's 280 miles before your first recharge. Assuming again that you want to be most efficient with charging, and get it back to 80%, that's another 220 miles per subsequent leg between charges. Realistically that means 500 miles of driving in a 8 hour day with one 45 minute stop. If you are traveling with a family I think that's very reasonable but other people may think differently.

 

[mkg3]

Having done several 400+ mile trips on Model 3, here are our lessons learned on trip planning:

1) Pre plan and know where charge stations are. While the onboard nav system will tell you where there are charge stations, its usually best to know your own body rhythm for nature break, food stops and so on. Also need a contingency if the chargers near you are being occupied.

2) Plan your charging stops along with your natural breaks (e.g., bathroom, lunch and so on) since charging takes 30~45 mins most of the time on fast chargers. Try to combine the stops so that it minimize the non-driving time on the road.

3) Know the difference between different levels of charging options. Many apps will tell you how many of each type (CCS, J1772). In my case it has to be the Tesla Supercharger. This will affect your charging times significantly.

4) I do charge the vehicle to 100% overnight prior to departing for a long drive. Just remember that regen braking do not work much until your down to 90% or so (if you think about it, you quickly figure out that there's not enough capacity to store regenerated energy, if the cells are full).

As for best charging scheme for only driving 20 or so miles/wk, I would only charge once or twice a month overnight using Level 2 (J1772) charger to 80~85% capacity. Try not to go below 20% charge either. Just parked EVs will consume some charge so keep that in mind.

 

[SeaGeo]

As for best charging scheme for only driving 20 or so miles/wk, I would only charge once or twice a month overnight using Level 2 (J1772) charger to 80~85% capacity.

Each manufacturer has a different recommendation for this. Given Rivian's daily driving profile charges to 70%, I'd assume they believe that is optimal for their battery pack and buffer.

 

[mkg3]

Each manufacturer has a different recommendation for this. Given Rivian's daily driving profile charges to 70%, I'd assume they believe that is optimal for their battery pack and buffer.

Yeah I understand and I believe its bit of red herring. Ideal condition for Li-Ion battery cells are 20%<charge level<85% typically, regardless of device or mfg, including things like cell phone and laptops. Vehicles shouldn't be any different.

I think its to keep people from charing to 100% and leaving it there, more than anything.

 

[SeaGeo]

Yeah I understand and I believe its bit of red herring. Ideal condition for Li-Ion battery cells are 20%<charge level<85% typically, regardless of device or mfg, including things like cell phone and laptops. Vehicles shouldn't be any different.

I think its to keep people from charing to 100% and leaving it there, more than anything.

Also don't forget different buffers. For example, the XC40 has a very small buffer, so 85% of the usable capacity is actually close to value for the nominal capacity as well. But an e-tron has a much larger buffer, so "85%" is actually a fair amount less.

Getting I to the weeds a bit here, but chemistry matters too.

 

[mkg3]

Buffer/system power requirement is partitioned off and is not part of useable percentage you see on the indicator.

The percentage shown is only for the usable energy and does not include the system functions.

 

[RideAlong]

Your actual range may vary ??‍?

 

[ajdelange]

I'm new to EVs and I'm trying to learn how to make the battery of my R1S (2H of 2023) last as long as possible.

Suggestions?

Easy. RTFM and do what Rivian tells you to do. That's probably to keep it plugged in whenever you are not driving it and the have it set for a maximum charge level of 70 - 80%.

 

[niemie7]

The decrease in battery life / range over time is the main reason I am getting the Max Pack - I plan on keeping this thing over 10 years...

 

[KiloV]

The decrease in battery life / range over time is the main reason I am getting the Max Pack - I plan on keeping this thing over 10 years...

I think it would great if, in seven or eight years, we could bring our R1 vehicles in to have them retrofitted with a new battery pack, charge management electronics and UI electronics. We could take advantage of all the technological advancements in the areas that age the most poorly (compute and battery), without having to replace the whole vehicle. I haven't done the math, of course, on how much this would cost or what Rivian's margins on this reconditioning option might be. It might or might not be commercially viable. Still, if I had the option to make my old R1T new again for, let's say, half the price of a new Rivian, I would probably take that...unless Rivian came up with a new platform that was just way more badass than the R1 in the meantime.

 

[moosetags]

We are new to the EV world. We reserved our R1T back in November of 2018 and have been researching EV protocols ever since.

We do not do any commuting. Our routine EV use would be errand trips several times a week. These trips would generally not be over 50 miles total. We plan to install the Rivian charging unit at our house. For this general EV use, I think that we understand the 80% max/20% min battery cycle pretty well. The one question that I have is when the R1T is at 65% after a short trip, do I recharge at that point, or do I just leave it sit for the next short run in a day or two?

Brian

 

[KiloV]

We are new to the EV world. We reserved our R1T back in November of 2018 and have been researching EV protocols ever since.

We do not do any commuting. Our routine EV use would be errand trips several times a week. These trips would generally not be over 50 miles total. We plan to install the Rivian charging unit at our house. For this general EV use, I think that we understand the 80% max/20% min battery cycle pretty well. The one question that I have is when the R1T is at 65% after a short trip, do I recharge at that point, or do I just leave it sit for the next short run in a day or two?

Brian

Shouldn't matter. If you plug your truck in it'll charge back up to the limit that you have set (the default Daily for Rivian is 70%) and then stop charging. Leaving the truck sitting at 65% vs. charging it back up to 70% won't affect the battery life positively or negatively.

Sponsored