Range & Battery Pack Thoughts

[niemie7]

I think it would great if, in seven or eight years, we could bring our R1 vehicles in to have them retrofitted with a new battery pack, charge management electronics and UI electronics. We could take advantage of all the technological advancements in the areas that age the most poorly (compute and battery), without having to replace the whole vehicle. I haven't done the math, of course, on how much this would cost or what Rivian's margins on this reconditioning option might be. It might or might not be commercially viable. Still, if I had the option to make my old R1T new again for, let's say, half the price of a new Rivian, I would probably take that...unless Rivian came up with a new platform that was just way more badass than the R1 in the meantime.

That's a good point though - I mean there will have to be options to change out the battery pack right? Obviously a major undertaking, but at some point that would have to be a thing, no?

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[godfodder0901]

That's a good point though - I mean there will have to be options to change out the battery pack right? Obviously a major undertaking, but at some point that would have to be a thing, no?

This is not something that Rivian is putting in place. That doesn't mean that it couldn't be done by a third party, but Rivian is not planning on this as a supported option.

 

[AltaTruck]

This battery replacement would seem to fit right in with Rivian's focus on the environment. If batteries could be swapped out, the old ones could be recycled into stationary battery arrays saving not only the cost of mining and manufacturing of new cells, but also the cost and environmental impact of producing a new vehicle. It also would keep perfectly usable vehicles on the road as opposed to scrapping them in an overcrowded landfill. Rivian can determin the profitability point they need so that It is a win for everyone. Something to consider.

 

[Zoidz]

I think it would great if, in seven or eight years, we could bring our R1 vehicles in to have them retrofitted with a new battery pack, charge management electronics and UI electronics. We could take advantage of all the technological advancements in the areas that age the most poorly (compute and battery), without having to replace the whole vehicle. I haven't done the math, of course, on how much this would cost or what Rivian's margins on this reconditioning option might be. It might or might not be commercially viable. Still, if I had the option to make my old R1T new again for, let's say, half the price of a new Rivian, I would probably take that...unless Rivian came up with a new platform that was just way more badass than the R1 in the meantime.

There are a few 3rd party companies doing battery replacements such as on the Leaf. IMO a whole cottage industry is going to evolve as time goes on to offer battery replacements. Rivian's ethos has to support this in some fashion, perhaps the possibility of 3rd party "Rivian Authorized Replacement Battery Partners", who would have the training and software needed to replace the battery pack.

 

[E.S.]

I think it would great if, in seven or eight years, we could bring our R1 vehicles in to have them retrofitted with a new battery pack, charge management electronics and UI electronics. We could take advantage of all the technological advancements in the areas that age the most poorly (compute and battery), without having to replace the whole vehicle

Wholeheartedly agreed. Especially regarding that by then we should see graphene and solid state batteries out and about. I do wonder, regarding Solid State, if due to how those batteries are made, will that change how the packs are designed and if it may cause a conflict with the current battery pack designs (mind you, I'm exploring "what if" possibilities here. This is by no means a conclusive fact).

This is not something that Rivian is putting in place. That doesn't mean that it couldn't be done by a third party, but Rivian is not planning on this as a supported option.

This would be disappointing. I've brought up the subject of battery swaps to newer tech versions down the road to them. Sadly, I've gotten no response on the matter.

 

[godfodder0901]

This battery replacement would seem to fit right in with Rivian's focus on the environment. If batteries could be swapped out, the old ones could be recycled into stationary battery arrays saving not only the cost of mining and manufacturing of new cells, but also the cost and environmental impact of producing a new vehicle. It also would keep perfectly usable vehicles on the road as opposed to scrapping them in an overcrowded landfill. Rivian can determin the profitability point they need so that It is a win for everyone. Something to consider.

While Rivian doesn't have plans to allow for battery swap/upgrades they absolutely have plans for battery second life other than landfills. They have designed the packs from the beginning to be rack mountable for second life applications, and have partners like The Honnold Foundation as seen here:
https://rivian.com/newsroom/article...apabilities-in-honnold-foundation-partnership

 

[SANZC02]

This battery replacement would seem to fit right in with Rivian's focus on the environment. If batteries could be swapped out, the old ones could be recycled into stationary battery arrays saving not only the cost of mining and manufacturing of new cells, but also the cost and environmental impact of producing a new vehicle. It also would keep perfectly usable vehicles on the road as opposed to scrapping them in an overcrowded landfill. Rivian can determin the profitability point they need so that It is a win for everyone. Something to consider.

I can see where that would not be in their near term plans because these batteries will probably last 10 plus years.

It certainly is a potential revenue stream down the road, especially if they get their own battery lines up that can yield more batteries than the mfg process can consume. It would tie into their second life plans for the old batteries and they could use the service centers to handle the replacement.

 

[AltaTruck]

Exactly my thoughts. Conforms with their mission statement.

 

[Max]

We are new to the EV world. We reserved our R1T back in November of 2018 and have been researching EV protocols ever since.

We do not do any commuting. Our routine EV use would be errand trips several times a week. These trips would generally not be over 50 miles total. We plan to install the Rivian charging unit at our house. For this general EV use, I think that we understand the 80% max/20% min battery cycle pretty well. The one question that I have is when the R1T is at 65% after a short trip, do I recharge at that point, or do I just leave it sit for the next short run in a day or two?

Brian

I will have a very similar situation to you. Never owned an EV but the story I tell myself is that R1 battery is happiest at 50%. Where there are the same number of electrons on both sides of the wall. Once you go to 60% or 40% there are more electrons on one side pushing the wall, even more at 30% or 70%. At 100% that wall is working really hard to keep them all at one side and also getting it from 99% to 100% require squeezing those final electrons into a heavily crowded room. Kinda like pushing the last dude into a train in Tokyo. All of this assuming there is same amount of buffer on both end and your 50% is really in the middle. So I plan to charge to 70% and drive it until it hit 25% (because leaving it at 30 is like leaving it at 70 but 25% is when I am driving back from somewhere and it would not be sitting at 25%). Before weekends, I will make sure it is closer to 70% or higher if I know I am going far.

One thing I don’t quite understand is that Rivian says keep it plugged in if you don’t plan to use if for extended period. I assume it is because battery conditioning may take the SOC to unhealthy levels. If that is the reason, and I know it does what it suppose to do unplugged, I would leave it plugged in for hot and cold times of the year but not spring or fall.

I would love to hear from EV owners, what is the SOC loss per day in winter and summer (specially outside) unplugged and is there anything vital that your EV do plugged in but not unplugged? Also at what SOC your EV stop conditioning the battery?

 

[Tomgriff]

Kinda like pushing the last dude into a train in Tokyo.

-Never want to be on that train, it is quite the experience...it is definitely a different definition of personal space.

All of this assuming there is same amount of buffer on both end and your 50% is really in the middle. So I plan to charge to 70% and drive it until it hit 25% (because leaving it at 30 is like leaving it at 70 but 25% is when I am driving back from somewhere and it would not be sitting at 25%). Before weekends, I will make sure it is closer to 70% or higher if I know I am going far.

-We charge our cars to 80% and let them get down anywhere between 30-50% on a regular basis. To be honest it isn't something we think about anymore. We don't actually need much more than the top 30% of the battery.

One thing I don’t quite understand is that Rivian says keep it plugged in if you don’t plan to use if for extended period. I assume it is because battery conditioning may take the SOC to unhealthy levels. If that is the reason, and I know it does what it suppose to do unplugged, I would leave it plugged in for hot and cold times of the year but not spring or fall.

-Because we have two cars we don't leave them plugged in because I only have one 240V EVSE (charger) and I don't bother using the 110V for the other. But when I can, I leave the Tesla plugged in because so I can preheat the interior in the morning.

I would love to hear from EV owners, what is the SOC loss per day in winter and summer (specially outside) unplugged and is there anything vital that your EV do plugged in but not unplugged? Also at what SOC your EV stop conditioning the battery?

Because of my charging habits I haven't noticed the daily loss, so I'm guessing it is pretty minimal on both cars. I have noticed in the summer the cabin protection will take some range to run the AC, but don't remember how much it used.

 

[E.S.]

One thing I don’t quite understand is that Rivian says keep it plugged in if you don’t plan to use if for extended period. I assume it is because battery conditioning may take the SOC to unhealthy levels. If that is the reason, and I know it does what it suppose to do unplugged, I would leave it plugged in for hot and cold times of the year but not spring or fall.

I think part of this is to keep the 12v batteries charged as well as the vehicle's main batteries. But don't quote me on this as this is the one feature I never really looked into (even with my current EV: the Bolt).

 

[pc500]

There's a risk; that the temp drops to -20, and to protect the battery they need to run the heater. Now, you returned home from your trip with 25% battery, you forget to plug it in Thursday->Monday while you chill in the cabin, and the battery is destroyed when you leave Monday.

You can use charge limits to address your concern.

 

[pc500]

There's a risk; that the temp drops to -20, and to protect the battery they need to run the heater. Now, you returned home from your trip with 25% battery, you forget to plug it in Thursday->Monday while you chill in the cabin, and the battery is destroyed when you leave Monday.

You can use charge limits to address

I will have a very similar situation to you. Never owned an EV but the story I tell myself is that R1 battery is happiest at 50%. Where there are the same number of electrons on both sides of the wall. Once you go to 60% or 40% there are more electrons on one side pushing the wall, even more at 30% or 70%. At 100% that wall is working really hard to keep them all at one side and also getting it from 99% to 100% require squeezing those final electrons into a heavily crowded room. Kinda like pushing the last dude into a train in Tokyo. All of this assuming there is same amount of buffer on both end and your 50% is really in the middle. So I plan to charge to 70% and drive it until it hit 25% (because leaving it at 30 is like leaving it at 70 but 25% is when I am driving back from somewhere and it would not be sitting at 25%). Before weekends, I will make sure it is closer to 70% or higher if I know I am going far.

One thing I don’t quite understand is that Rivian says keep it plugged in if you don’t plan to use if for extended period. I assume it is because battery conditioning may take the SOC to unhealthy levels. If that is the reason, and I know it does what it suppose to do unplugged, I would leave it plugged in for hot and cold times of the year but not spring or fall.

I would love to hear from EV owners, what is the SOC loss per day in winter and summer (specially outside) unplugged and is there anything vital that your EV do plugged in but not unplugged? Also at what SOC your EV stop conditioning the battery?

There's a risk; that the temp drops to -20, and to protect the battery they need to run the heater. Now, you returned home from your trip with 25% battery, you forget to plug it in Thursday->Monday while you chill in the cabin, and the battery is destroyed when you leave Monday.

You can use charge limits to address your concern.

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