R2 buyers - will you wait for gen 3 hardware (including LiDAR)?

[Supratachophobia]

You should wait. Take that advice from a very early tech adopter that included 2 early Model S (2014 and 2016). Missed AP by 1 month on first one, missed refresh by 1 month on the second. Lidar is going to enable hands off/eyes off PtP, according to autonomy day. And that's a pretty big feature to miss out on long-term.

Sponsored

 

[timf]

I think its a mistake to think Rivian R2 Gen1 without Lidar will be equivalent to Tesla FSD. There are no guarantees it will reach that level of autonomy with its current h/w & future s/w. Once the R2 Gen2 comes out, their s/w development focus will be on that, particularly as it relates to autonomy. Its a risk to get Gen1 and think its enough to be on par with FSD.

Fair assessment, I had forgotten Rivian's current Autonomy+ plans are for highway driving only, not door-to-door. In any event, I am skeptical LIDAR will start shipping as soon as next year, and even then it may take several years to have a real impact on available features. The best approach is to buy based on currently available features and not future promises. I'm fine without LIDAR for now and will upgrade if and when it makes a tangible difference.

 

[VSG]

I'm buying an LE right away and getting the thousands of dollars of free upgrades. By the time lidar is released I will have been using my R2 for more than a year, and the lidar version with the same upgrades (that you will then have to pay for) will cost at least $5k more.

 

[Redline]

I'm buying an LE right away and getting the thousands of dollars of free upgrades. By the time lidar is released I will have been using my R2 for more than a year, and the lidar version with the same upgrades (that you will then have to pay for) will cost at least $5k more.

I like your attitude, but the LiDAR won’t be at least $5k more. Maybe if you’re talking a bout some of the others you’re getting with LE.

Man…I’m on a fence here.

 

[VSG]

I like your attitude, but the LiDAR won’t be at least $5k more. Maybe if you’re talking a bout some of the others you’re getting with LE.

It's the same approach I took when I bought my R1T LE. You can either take what comes out first or you can put it off and wait an unknown amount of time for the "better" model. Please though, if you make the choice to wait, don't whine about how long it's taking - it will be your choice to wait for an indefinite time. There will always be a "better" model just around the corner. I was happily driving my R1T LE (best vehicle I've ever owned) for several years while others were whining about how Rivian hadn't started shipping the model they really wanted to buy. I think I made the better choice. Although the model I really wanted was the 5-seat R1S with a Max pack (which was canceled before the first one was made) I "settled" for the R1T and I don't regret that decision for a second.

No one can predict the future, but we already know that lidar won't be coming for another year. Any hiccup will delay it more. The levels of autonomy made possible by the lidar are probably two years off. By that time, I might be ready to retire one of my other vehicles and replace it with the lidar R2. But as autonomy isn't high on my list of needs/wants (I like to drive), it's not something I'm willing to wait for and sacrifice the pleasure of using my R2 for those two years.

I'm not talking about the incremental cost of lidar, I'm talking about the $5k (that's a guess) in free stuff that you get with the LE that you will have to pay for by the time LE is discontinued and lidar is available. Tow package, performance package, lifetime autonomy+, etc. In order to get an LE equivalent vehicle with lidar you're going to have to pay at least $5k more even if the lidar itself is free. And that's assuming prices are stagnant for the next year+.

 

[Aonach]

You should wait. Take that advice from a very early tech adopter that included 2 early Model S (2014 and 2016). Missed AP by 1 month on first one, missed refresh by 1 month on the second. Lidar is going to enable hands off/eyes off PtP, according to autonomy day. And that's a pretty big feature to miss out on long-term.

But what if you actually like DRIVING? No thanks. Too many unknowns as well. Certainly more costly and I LIKE driving. If course, the majority of my cars are still manuals. So I'm biased.

 

[Supratachophobia]

But what if you actually like DRIVING? No thanks. Too many unknowns as well. Certainly more costly and I LIKE driving. If course, the majority of my cars are still manuals. So I'm biased.

Oh I agree in that I also prefer driving. But there's going to be such a huge feature difference in these generations that 3-6 months worth of buyers are going to feel passed up when the software is finally ready.

 

[Rizzian]

Current hardware, next generation... I mean, even if it seems "a little bit twitchy" right now, what's the worst that can happen?

 

[Teledatageek]

I'm buying an LE right away and getting the thousands of dollars of free upgrades. By the time lidar is released I will have been using my R2 for more than a year, and the lidar version with the same upgrades (that you will then have to pay for) will cost at least $5k more.

Same and I also want Launch Green, so.... there will be no waiting for LIDAR.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

It's the same approach I took when I bought my R1T LE.

I disagree. With the R1, Rivian didn’t say that a more capable Gen 2 was going to happen later that year. They are with the R2.

While I generally agree that if you are waiting for better tech, you are always waiting, I also don’t think buying something the manufacturer is telling you will be old news in less than a year works for me.

 

[VSG]

No, for the R1 Rivian said that, among other things, the Max pack and the Explore trim were coming out after the LE. MANY people declined to configure a LE because those were not options at launch. The reason expressed by MANY people was that why should they buy the smaller battery now when the big one will be available in just 6 months (even though Rivian never promised 6 months). Why would they pay $10k extra for the LE when the Explore trim had everything they needed for a much better price? MANY people claimed that they had "reserved" a R1S Max Pack "back in 2018" (when all you could do back then was express a *preference* for R1T vs R1S) and Rivian was pulling a "bait-and-switch" at launch by instead shipping only the R1T Large first. We are still hearing these complaints to this day from people who made a choice that didn't work out for them and are still blaming Rivian for that choice.

And now we see history repeating itself to a lesser extent. We still have people crying "bait-and-switch" and canceling their R2 reservation in a huff over the $45k base model even though Rivian has said since the R2 announcement in 2024 that the base model would not be the first model available. We still have people who won't purchase now because they really want the Tri-max and were expecting that first. We still have people disappointed because they made an R2 reservation hoping they could use it for an R3, thinking maybe Rivian will surprise use with the R3 launch at the same time because everyone wants it?

But the biggest false narrative is this notion that all you have to do is wait six months and you will get a R2 with lidar and FSD for no extra cost. That's what you're saying with "old news in less than a year". It would be cool if that happened, but it's not going to - you're reading into all the marketing what you want to hear and ignoring all the signs that should be telling you that's not going to happen. Not because I distrust Rivian, but because they have never said that would be the case.

They will be putting lidar in the cars, for sure, but it won't be until early 2027. And it will probably be only in certain high-end trims at first, and it will initially be used only for training the AI model (whether you purchase Autonomy+ or not, they're going to use the lidar to collect data) - the same model that will be run on the Gen 2 R1 and R2 vehicles. So the lidar will lead to improvements across the entire line of Gen 2 vehicles. Look how they rolled out UHF, why do you think the transition will be radically different this time?

 

[artuvian]

LiDAR is used to train the autonomous model of the entire fleet. It does not directly benefit models that have it enabled (our of it does, it's marginal).

There are a few interviews on YouTube with Rivian autonomy team stating this.

Although since I'm not an R1 owner, I should not be convincing y'all to get the LE... I want one!

 

[Yota2R1T]

LiDAR is used to train the autonomous model of the entire fleet. It does not directly benefit models that have it enabled (our of it does, it's marginal).

There are a few interviews on YouTube with Rivian autonomy team stating this.

Although since I'm not an R1 owner, I should not be convincing y'all to get the LE... I want one!

This is a very interesting point that I don't think has been emphasized. The Lidar benefits the building of the model for the full fleet
The Gen 3 hardware, then, should be the main focus of the coming update, and what people are waiting for, if they choose.
Will Gen 2 hardware eventually manage the same level of Autonomy with Gen 3 - Lidar support?
Unlikely, but gives less credence to the 'always another better model coming' downside narrative for waiting.

 

[Eric9610]

This is a very interesting point that I don't think has been emphasized. The Lidar benefits the building of the model for the full fleet
The Gen 3 hardware, then, should be the main focus of the coming update, and what people are waiting for, if they choose.
Will Gen 2 hardware eventually manage the same level of Autonomy with Gen 3 - Lidar support?
Unlikely, but gives less credence to the 'always another better model coming' downside narrative for waiting.

Rivian has already said what the R2 without LiDAR can do, it is L3 hands off point to point driving. The only added benefit of the LiDAR will be eventually hands off eyes off point to point. Don't expect the L4 function any time soon...

 

[chadwoodhead]

I don’t care about waiting for Lidar, but I do care about waiting for Gen3 hardware. I’ve already seen them release features for only Gen2 and not Gen1, I don’t want to get a brand new R2 now and then in the not so distant future the newest features are only for the Gen3 model. It’s about compute for me and not self-driving, especially when better compute comes out in less than a year. If it was 2-3 years from now then that would be a different story.

My guess is R2 was originally supposed to be released with Gen3 and then they hit delays so they pivoted to releasing R2 with Gen2.5. Curious to hear others’ opinions.

Sponsored