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R1S vs Model X

Rivuylkill

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It's not really orthogonal , what other fully electric vehicle option is there that can tow at least 5000 lbs? Or has 3 useable rows (model Y's 3rd row is a stretch beyond kid ages)? There are a lot of reasons why they get cross shopped.

Of course there are going to be probably just as many Model X shoppers who wouldn't dream of owning a box like a Rivian, and probably as many R1S shoppers that don't want something as incapable as an X in how they want to use the vehicle.
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Hilbe

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The Gullwing doors are the dumbest thing. Cool for a moment but in reality just dumb. All the freezing on the locking mechanism, the inability to have a roof rack, and on and on.
I love the doors. I'm probably in a minority on it though. If you have any kids in car seats in the middle section it is amazing. As a tall person, I usually have to hunch over and slide the kids into a car seat and have some trouble reaching over/around the child to buckle seat belts with normal doors. With the FWD open I can be fully standing and just dump the kid into the seat and belt them in easily.
 

riviancanucknb

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The guy is not even mentioning a key thing - garages.

I can not buy a Model X even if I wanted to, because... I own a garage. The falcon doors would not have enough clearance to open (I measured), so my daughter would be unable to get in and out of the car in the garage.

I do not even want to think about a parking garage.

How Tesla did not think garages through with this vehicle I will never understand. Most people buying cars of this class, like to park them in garages. Garages are not made for "doors that open like this" (does Russ Hanneman gestures)
 

kurtlikevonnegut

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The guy is not even mentioning a key thing - garages.

I can not buy a Model X even if I wanted to, because... I own a garage. The falcon doors would not have enough clearance to open (I measured), so my daughter would be unable to get in and out of the car in the garage.

I do not even want to think about a parking garage.

How Tesla did not think garages through with this vehicle I will never understand. Most people buying cars of this class, like to park them in garages. Garages are not made for "doors that open like this" (does Russ Hanneman gestures)
I live in an elevated house (drive under garage) and the neighbor down the street with an X has it always parked in the driveway with the charging cord running under their garage door. Can't wait to make them feel inadequate as I back my R1S into the garage every night.
 

Richbot

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I have a Long Range Plus. It's a great family car, but it's not going to do Tahoe things very well. The door sills on it are the same height as a lot of modern sedans. The only reason it's a little tall-ish vs sedans is the bubble-shaped roof and the tall-for-a-wagon 29" tires.

Model X and R1S aren't comparable in capability or mission IMO. R1S is a true truckUV, with real offroad capability and ground clearance and the consumption and handling compromises to go with it.

Model X is just an overinflated Model S, which, if the roof wasn't curved, would be called a wagon. Yes it *can* tow, but so can most wagons in Europe. It's a 198" long wagon, only 6" longer than our E-class. And it's an expensive, all-aluminum, not particularly robustly-built (Model S running gear with an extra 800lb of weight) wagon. It weighs in the neighborhood of 1000lb less than the R1S, and is like 10" shorter iwth a much lower CG (the battery on X alone is something like 6" lower!) and ride height and is going to handle much more like a car than R1S. People who want that SUV seating position from Model X are routinely disappointed, lots of threads about that on the forums.

Model X is no more a competitor to R1S than a Benz wagon is to a Land Cruiser, in my mind. Totally different missions, IMO, and the only reason anybody talks about them in the same breath is because nobody else is making a 3-row EV yet.

Now with Tesla's extortionate pricing increases since I got mine ($20k more for basically the same car, with a few improvements, that I ordered last September!) they're not even playing on the same price field anyway. Ridiculous when you consider most people don't give a crap about their utility vehicle's handling, and just want it comfy and able to carry and do lots. If Rivian can hit production targets, X sales are going to taaaaaannnk

Anyway, I have spoken. I love our Model X, but I have always loved wagons, which is why I think I liked it immediately. Looking forward to all the R1S's on the road. 'Merica

I live in an elevated house (drive under garage) and the neighbor down the street with an X has it always parked in the driveway with the charging cord running under their garage door. Can't wait to make them feel inadequate as I back my R1S into the garage every night.
My garage has 9' ceilings (garage door is about 8') and the Model X works fine in it, doors always open all the way, never any issue. You just set it to open all the way at home, otherwise sensors are just very conservative so it won't open fully upwards with any kind of anything up above. When this happens, you just slide in and out from the side. Sensors are conservative ecause they're eleven million american dollarbucks each.

It also works fine in parking garages, sometimes you have to override the sensors, sometimes you don't. I thought I would hate the doors and have turned out to really like them. Until they act weird or I hit my head on them again, then I hate them again. Definitely something you have to live with for a while to be convinced of. Still rather have a slider or a conventional door, but they're neat in a weird french car sortof way
 
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First "real" indication of market share stealing will be when Tesla reduced price on Model X. Then we'll know something in the market is happening. That won't happen (IMO) until R1S' are more readily available
 

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Oh, and I will add, the doors do get a lot of attention, and kids seem to know the car and know it's the X as opposed to some other tesla. Happens a couple times a month some kid will be like hey it's the one with the gullwing doors!

This is not necessarily a good thing if you just want to pick up some milk. But at least it proves the kids are gonna be ok because they still give a crap about cars despite what all the media punditry would have us believe

Also, the Tesla fanboys are real and they're exhausting. It's...weird
 

Richbot

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First "real" indication of market share stealing will be when Tesla reduced price on Model X. Then we'll know something in the market is happening. That won't happen (IMO) until R1S' are more readily available
Tesla should probably restart the production line first lol
 

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The guy is not even mentioning a key thing - garages.

I can not buy a Model X even if I wanted to, because... I own a garage. The falcon doors would not have enough clearance to open (I measured), so my daughter would be unable to get in and out of the car in the garage.
You measured, so I can't argue with you about whether or not a Model X would work for you in your garage.

My Model X is parked in my garage 95% of the time, and the doors open just fine, and the kids get in just fine.

I do not even want to think about a parking garage.
Again, I cannot speak to the parking garages you frequent where you live.
Mine has been in many parking garages and the only time we've had a problem is when we had to park close enough to a wall that *no* style of door could possibly open.

How Tesla did not think garages through with this vehicle I will never understand. Most people buying cars of this class, like to park them in garages. Garages are not made for "doors that open like this" (does Russ Hanneman gestures)
The take that Model X are fundamentally incompatible with any type of garage is provably false and is a bizarre belief to me; Since mine is in-and-out of garages all the time.
 

acacia1602

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I have a Long Range Plus. It's a great family car, but it's not going to do Tahoe things very well. The door sills on it are the same height as a lot of modern sedans. The only reason it's a little tall-ish vs sedans is the bubble-shaped roof and the tall-for-a-wagon 29" tires.

Model X and R1S aren't comparable in capability or mission IMO. R1S is a true truckUV, with real offroad capability and ground clearance and the consumption and handling compromises to go with it.

Model X is just an overinflated Model S, which, if the roof wasn't curved, would be called a wagon. Yes it *can* tow, but so can most wagons in Europe. It's a 198" long wagon, only 6" longer than our E-class. And it's an expensive, all-aluminum, not particularly robustly-built (Model S running gear with an extra 800lb of weight) wagon. It weighs in the neighborhood of 1000lb less than the R1S, and is like 10" shorter iwth a much lower CG (the battery on X alone is something like 6" lower!) and ride height and is going to handle much more like a car than R1S. People who want that SUV seating position from Model X are routinely disappointed, lots of threads about that on the forums.

Model X is no more a competitor to R1S than a Benz wagon is to a Land Cruiser, in my mind. Totally different missions, IMO, and the only reason anybody talks about them in the same breath is because nobody else is making a 3-row EV yet.

Now with Tesla's extortionate pricing increases since I got mine ($20k more for basically the same car, with a few improvements, that I ordered last September!) they're not even playing on the same price field anyway. Ridiculous when you consider most people don't give a crap about their utility vehicle's handling, and just want it comfy and able to carry and do lots. If Rivian can hit production targets, X sales are going to taaaaaannnk

Anyway, I have spoken. I love our Model X, but I have always loved wagons, which is why I think I liked it immediately. Looking forward to all the R1S's on the road. 'Merica



My garage has 9' ceilings (garage door is about 8') and the Model X works fine in it, doors always open all the way, never any issue. You just set it to open all the way at home, otherwise sensors are just very conservative so it won't open fully upwards with any kind of anything up above. When this happens, you just slide in and out from the side. Sensors are conservative ecause they're eleven million american dollarbucks each.

It also works fine in parking garages, sometimes you have to override the sensors, sometimes you don't. I thought I would hate the doors and have turned out to really like them. Until they act weird or I hit my head on them again, then I hate them again. Definitely something you have to live with for a while to be convinced of. Still rather have a slider or a conventional door, but they're neat in a weird french car sortof way
I bought a Model Y 7 seat as a stopgap as soon as it was announced, but the R1S is what I hope to be the replacement for the Minivan. My wife wanted me to buy a Range Rover but I wanted electric; I’m hopeful she’ll want the R1S and I will keep driving the Y.
TBH I just don’t want to buy any more gas cars. Done with that. The Tesla has ruined me forever from them. Is anyone going to offer me an EV with real leather seats and manual HVAC controls? I’d sell the Y for that…
 

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Scott

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I bought a Model Y 7 seat as a stopgap as soon as it was announced, but the R1S is what I hope to be the replacement for the Minivan. My wife wanted me to buy a Range Rover but I wanted electric; I’m hopeful she’ll want the R1S and I will keep driving the Y.
TBH I just don’t want to buy any more gas cars. Done with that. The Tesla has ruined me forever from them. Is anyone going to offer me an EV with real leather seats and manual HVAC controls? I’d sell the Y for that…
Amen to the real HVAC controls. Add to it audio controls. Bury the mirror and steering wheel adjustments and other such junk in a touch screen all you want, but give me a real button for the stuff I hit every time I am in the car.
 

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del X is just an overinflated Model S, which, if the roof wasn't curved, would be called a wagon. Yes it *can* tow, but so can most wagons in Europe. It's a 198" long wagon, only 6" longer than our E-class. And it's an expensive, all-aluminum, not particularly robustly-built (Model S running gear with an extra 800lb of weight) wagon. It weighs in the neighborhood of 1000lb less than the R1S, and is like 10" shorter iwth a much lower CG (the battery on X alone is something like 6" lower!) and ride height and is going to handle much more like a car than R1S. People who want that SUV seating posit
Amen to the real HVAC controls. Add to it audio controls. Bury the mirror and steering wheel adjustments and other such junk in a touch screen all you want, but give me a real button for the stuff I hit every time I am in the car.
Alternatively, they could make auto HVAC that, you know, works

Why is this so hard I swear I touch the HVAC controls like twice a year in our 2008 and 2015 with auto HVAC and the tech geeeenyuses at Tesla are trying to gamify being comfortable. I don't need the temperature to be a hand-eye agility test dudes

Maybe it has to do with how they design their cars to be literal greenhouses
 
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JeremyP

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I'm also looking to the r1s to replace our minivan and take over some of the utility and uses of our 4runner. Much more than taking market share from luxury suv's I hope it also sways a lot of the people buying a Tahoe/Yukon/Expedition/ Sequoia etc. The price of the r1s is very similar to the large conventional suv's.
 

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Alternatively, they could make auto HVAC that, you know, works

Why is this so hard I swear I touch the HVAC controls like twice a year in our 2008 and 2015 with auto HVAC and the tech geeeenyuses at Tesla are trying to gamify being comfortable. I don't need the temperature to be a hand-eye agility test dudes

Maybe it has to do with how they design their cars to be literal greenhouses
Yes. My VW.ID4 has an actual sunshade for the roof. I understand that the glass in the tesla style roofs blocks out a lot of the heat, but I really like being able to close the sunshade.
 

Trekkie

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So here's my $0.02.

I'm a 2019 Short Range Model X Six seater owner. It's an unicorn of model X's, was only made for three months and had a 249 mile range. It only cost $89k at the time - you can't get this model any more and now something close to similar is 108k with 360 mile range. so at this point if I was doing it I'd get the R1S just on that alone, it's not a $108k vehicle at all. I could justify the gas savings and get an $89k car, at 108k there isn't any savings there. (six seat, white exterior, beige interior, no FSD)

Unlike a lot of you, I wanted it for the doors. and the fact I have four children living in my home, it replaced a 2016 V6 Turbo Ford Expedition and has saved me a fortune in gasoline and stopped polluting at a whopping 12 mpg that stupid thing got. When Marty McFly got out of the Delorean I said I WANT A CAR WITH DOORS LIKE THAT. It took me close to 35 years but I did it.

after almost two years of ownership, and multiple long (1100 mile + ) road trips I'm not unhappy with it. I have never towed a thing with it, i have put a bike rack on the hitch, but never towed. Can't compare. it now has about 18k miles on it (covid slowed us down a lot for driving)

I will say this:

You can open the doors in the garage, it'll fight you thinking it's going to hit something sometimes (like the garage door opener) but you can open the doors inside the garage - even with another car next to it. The side against the wall was tight but my 5'4 daughter and 4'2 daughter could climb out. I honestly quit doing it though as most days we back out and then open up to let everyone climb in. The dual hinges on them make them contort rather nicely. I have had some entertainment with idiots who can't park between the lines and opened a door and it scared the snot out of one terrible driver when I opened the door remotely but it never touched the other car, maybe 2 ft of side/side clearance. Sure these doors aren't for everyone and you can't put stuff on top of the vehicle, but for an urban assault vehicle the first time you open them at car pool and a chorus of 'oooooooooos' from elementary school kids is pretty entertaining. I've not gotten tired of the doors yet, and i have not had any issues, and they are used daily by my kids.

I'm reserving judgement on the claims there is more room. In the model X with six occupants I can get enough suitcases with winter clothing in them for a 7 day trip. Summer is easier as clothes don't take up much room. I really would like to know how far between the third row is between the back and the gate. comparing the cubic feet/liters of space doesn't work. We cram the frunk full of the 'overnight' bags for the hotel stop on a two day road trip (1100 miles) we take at least once a year. If the R1S holds more, more power too it. These are just standard large suitcases dropped vertically into the lowered hole behind the third row.

while i'd love to offroad, it wasn't a consideration when buying the X, so the approach/departure angles are 'it doesn't scrape on the driveway when i pull in'

Design is completely up to your tastes, I like the vertical screen and the dash screens. I hate that carplay isn't in there and think it's terrible Rivian did the same thing, bluetooth control of the phone never works right / disconnects / cocks up and you have to fart with the phone making you unsafe. Stop saying you'll evaluate the market and customer feedback, turn on android auto/apple carplay.

The in car nav is solid, especially road tripping and picking the next charger. The supercharger network is excellent, and even with a 240 range (never been able to make that, best I've gotten was 200 miles and that was coming off the Appalachian Mountains from NC to TN, so a 6k altitude drop. My only concern is EA has a reputation for being terrible. I've never had a SC problem, except the one in Knoxville, TN is busy as hell.

Seats are comfortable, and even a 12 hour drive and I don't feel miserable/knees hurt like they did in my Expedition.

As far as performance shoving six people up to 60 in 3 seconds might be funny once but not all your passengers like that. mine only makes it in 4.3 s and that's still a jolt to the system you're bringing a 7200 pound car and it's freaking fast. 3.0s will be wild ride, and if you got stuff in the car you're throwing things around the cabin at that acceleration rate. It's fun, but then you spend 10m everyone trying to find phone/ipad, whatever that slid from wherever it was in the cabin. That said I'm worried about my 12 year old she wants me to do it all the time :D

All that said in defense of the X, I'm seriously considering replacing the X with the R1S. I want an R1T for myself as my last car was the Chevy Bolt and I returned it as we leased it and they turned into small bombs now.

My gripes are that I bought a car in October 2019 but somehow it didn't come with the 'right' FSD computer so I have to spend $1000 to try out FSD as a subscription, or $10k to turn it on and get the 'upgrade' for 'free'. FSD is BS, sorry. not worth $10k by any stretch of the imagination to me. Glad some folks like it, but I don't $10k like it.

I don't like that I have random encounters with humans that either think Elon Musk is the second coming of christ or the antichrist on earth. I bought it because it saved me $500 a month in gas costs, not to hero worship the guy. I'm happy he helped drive the adoption of EVs and more competitors are coming out, but he's a weird dude, has said and done some incredibly dumb things and the 'bro' culture of some of his fans drives me bonkers and I don't want to be associated with that just because I bought a car. I'm an introvert, and weird people getting in my face while I'm trying to get my hair cut or pick up my groceries doesn't fly with me.

But the R1S configured how I want is $82k, which is cheaper for more range than the 108k for the 'new' x that hasn't shipped yet and probably the R1S will ship before they get that thing out at the rate they're going. At the moment my X is worth more than what I owe, and trading it in would be cool. But knowing my luck, the R1S will take long enough to get here the high value of my car will fall again because the backlog will get cleared about the time an R1S is ready.
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