R1S pulls hard to the right on acceleration. SC says this is normal...thoughts?

[R1Thor]

Who claimed or implied this was an "EV" thing? You asked AI to disprove something that no one was was claiming.

So, you didn't read what I responded to and what the response was quoting?

Everyone's claiming that their Rivian has torque steer because it has power and/or other nonsensical stuff.

My point is, it DOES NOT have torque steer.

And that it's likely endemic of an underlying problem, which is also covered in the outline I provided.

If your Rivian has something that feels like 'torque steer,' make an appointment at your local Service Center. That is all.

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[R1Thor]

I used AI to decompress and summarize that AI drivel. Is your point that the thing we experience is not called torque steer, but should be called something else? Or that we didn't actually experience anything at all and we're on hallucinogens?

AI drivel, huh?
You should've seen what I was writing before I used it to make a more concise and broken-out explanation.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's automatically incorrect.

My point is: your Rivian doesn't have torque steer.

If you're pulling to one side, it's a problem. Take it to service and have it fixed.
The end.

 

[SwampNut]

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's automatically incorrect.

Correct, hence my question.

If you're pulling to one side, it's a problem. Take it to service and have it fixed.

So they are giving out demo rides in brand new G2s that do this and they don't get it fixed?

 

[VSG]

Everyone's claiming that their Rivian has torque steer because it has power and/or other nonsensical stuff.

No, everyone is explaining torque steer and giving all sorts of ICE examples. No one is saying that this is an EV characteristic.

And no one is saying the OPs behavior is "normal".

 

[R1Thor]

Correct, hence my question.



So they are giving out demo rides in brand new G2s that do this and they don't get it fixed?

I guess so?

We have both an R1T and an R1S. Quad.
My neighbor has an R1S Dual.

None of ours are pulling to the right.

So, unless in G2, they made some kind of update to wreck the driving dynamics, there's no reason for it to pull to the right.

Regardless, if they DO and somehow it IS in spec, it's not torque steer, as I addressed within my AI drivel post. Torque steer is induced by mechanics that are not in play for an EV powertrain.

It's kind of like people claiming they can't off-road well because of torque stall in electric motors. They don't know what they're saying. Because that's not what torque stall is either. But they're experiencing a phenomenon they can't describe and instead use a tangential phrase to describe their experience, even though it's inherently wrong.

Or it's like people seeing UAPs and claiming 'it's aliens' even though the first word in that acronym is "unidentified." If unidentified, you therefore cannot claim what it is

 

[R1Thor]

No, everyone is explaining torque steer and giving all sorts of ICE examples. No one is saying that this is an EV characteristic.

And no one is saying the OPs behavior is "normal".

Once again, I was responding to TWO SPECIFIC COMMENTS that were claiming it was torque steer (unless I suddenly and completely lost reading comprehension, at which point, please disregard everything I've said). I literally quoted it in my response...

 

[carsly]

I have a Gen 2 Dual and test drove a Gen 2 Tri and both had noticeable "torque steer" pulling right under a hard launch. Significant enough to require steering correction. Why the quotes, it feels like torque steer from a traditional FWD vehicle. If it's something else, so be it.

Four Teslas over the years and no torque steer, even under much harder launches in the S/X compared to the Rivian - Model X Performance Ludicrous, Model S Plaid, Model Y Performance and Cybertruck AWD. Could be grip-related and weight transfer, the Rivian dual and I believe tri are both primarily front wheel drive and both porpoise quite a bit unless you drop the suspension in advance. The Teslas all launched much flatter, incl. Cybertruck. Not even tire squeal, which is easy to generate on the Rivians. YMMV

 

[VSG]

Everyone's claiming that their Rivian has torque steer because it has power and/or other nonsensical stuff.

No, everyone is explaining torque steer and giving all sorts of ICE examples. No one is saying that this is an EV characteristic.

And no one is saying the OPs behavior is "normal".

Here's what you said. You started your AI post by saying:

Sorry guys, but Torque steer is NOT an EV reality.

Then you went on to justify your position like this:

Do EVs Have Torque Steer?
Pure BEVs with individual motors on each axle or each wheel?

99% of the time? No.
And Rivian specifically? Absolutely not in the traditional sense.


Here’s why:

The bold face and large type is all yours - is there any other way to interpret this than that is part of the point you're trying to make?

It's clear you asked the AI a leading question. No one claimed EVs inherently have torque steer, but you asked the AI to prove that false.

Once again, I was responding to TWO SPECIFIC COMMENTS that were claiming it was torque steer (unless I suddenly and completely lost reading comprehension, at which point, please disregard everything I've said). I literally quoted it in my response...

Neither of the two posts you were responding to, by @Zoidz (https://rivianforums.com/forum/thre...ys-this-is-normal-thoughts.52606/#post-898224) and @mikehmb (https://rivianforums.com/forum/thre...s-is-normal-thoughts.52606/page-2#post-898294) said this was an EV issue.

@Zoidz said:

In my R1S I believe it is due to road and tire variables, not a vehicle fault.

@mikehmb agreed with @Zoidz and added:

Also, it's much more pronounced in cars with higher power:weight ratio. My old GTI would yank side to side

Specifically equating the problem with "higher power:weight ratio" while giving an ICE example.

If you inferred from this that he was talking about EVs, then you misunderstood what he was saying.

Torque steer can be caused by a number of things. In this thread we are talking about a problem the OP is having that is can be described as torque steer caused by tires, alignment, etc. and perhaps amplified by the fact that the vehicle has a huge amount of torque. We are not talking about an inherent design flaw that results in torque steer, especially not something that is inherent to EVs.

Rivians also can deliberately use torque steer for performance, for example in sport mode. That is possible because of computer control of all four wheels. That's an entirely different subject, but it's still called torque steer because when it comes down to it torque steer describes the trajectory of the vehicle being altered by a difference in torque between the driving wheels. Whether it's caused by a bad tire, bad alignment, design feature (different length half shafts), or whether it's done deliberately for performance, it's all still torque steer.

Regardless, everyone is saying is is *not* normal and the OP should not accept a "within spec" answer but should get it fixed. No one is defending Rivian and saying anything like "all EVs do this".

 

[R1Thor]

<Quoted stuff redacted for brevity>

The AI made all the bold stuff. Not me. You should check out ChatGPT, it's actually pretty cool.

I also understand bias, and I was deliberating on my OWN bias when I was prompting the AI. My actual query was as follows: "People are debating torque steer in a Rivian forum. My understanding of torque steer is it's a phenomenon that's prevalent in FWD cars due to the way their differential works with the front axles (and sometimes exacerbated by the way the transmission is mounted, for example). So, in my estimation, open-differential EVs likely shouldn't suffer torque steer. Or am I missing an element here that might contribute as such? "

I could see how that last sentence might have induced some bias. And that was the response.
Thanks for trying to get me in a 'gotcha' though!

I'd also like to reiterate, *once again,* that I was responding to 2 specific comments equating torque steer, one very specifically talking about his experience in a FWD ICE vehicle...

Regardless, everyone is saying is is *not* normal and the OP should not accept a "within spec" answer but should get it fixed. No one is defending Rivian and saying anything like "all EVs do this".

We agree on this.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Torque steer was an issue back in the 1980s when vehicles were going front wheel drive with unequal half shafts and has been mostly fixed. Besides Rivian has equal length half shafts.

Sorry guys, but Torque steer is NOT an EV reality.

You both should drive a GM dual motor EV Pickup and turn on the higher power mode. My Sierra EV has some of the worst torque steer I've ever had in a vehicle.

For the OP's topic, I've noticed some torque steer with my tri-motor R1S now that the roads are a little cold. It's likely that it starts doing it because of tire slip.

BUT, I did have a weird experience the other day when it was strongly pulling left under hard acceleration. Letting off briefly and getting back into the throttle resulted in the same thing. After letting off for maybe 10-15 seconds and trying it again, it was normal again. No idea what could cause this besides something strange going on with the traction control system.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

My tri pulls occasionally when I really lay on it. There isn't a specific direction; sometimes left, sometimes right. More often, the rear end comes loose, which is pretty fun. I like a car that I can make power slide

 

[Zoidz]

Not really wanting to get mired in an ongoing debate, but I'll post some brief observations. Torque Steer is what happens - "a vehicle pulling left/right under hard acceleration". There are historical examples of it (unequal half shafts, FWD, etc.) but those are typical well known causes of it. There's nothing inherent in the definition ("a vehicle pulling left/right under hard accleration") that exculdes other causes. Below is the definition I find on several web sites and has been my understanding of the term for years:

"Torque steer can be caused by any of the following conditions:

• Asymmetric front driveshafts that differ in length, torsional stiffness, or diameter
• Excessive application of front-wheel torque
• Worn suspension parts such as control-arm bushings
• Engine movement or worn engine mounts
• Asymmetric grip conditions at the front tires
• Sidewall deformation of the front tires
• A significant scrub radius"

Years ago, there was a torque steer issue on my wife's Volvo 740, which would also tramline on certain roads. It turned out to be a worn out control arm bushing. Replacing that fixed it.

So IMO this problem on a Rivian can be called Torque Steer based on any of the above bolded items. Even on a quad, such as one that had the cracked subframe issue. If you doubt it, drop the tire pressure on one of the front tires by 10 psi and see what happens on a launch. Torque Steer is the symptom, with many possible underlying causes, not just the most common ones. I have little faith in General Purpose AI for stuff like this, and that comes from dozens of hours reading and watching videos to understand how LLMs work at the technical, algorithmic level. Tokens and Transformers and Epochs, oh my!

 

[Oldcarguy]

I have noticed this on my son's dual R1S, 2nd gen. Lots of good information here.

 

[mbaran]

OP - a lot of noise in this thread but did you ever make any progress with your SC on this? Ours does the same with very little throttle input, like rolling from 35-55mph, but the SC is trying to say it's "normal". Short video attached. Curious what resolution may exist.

 

[hammick]

Not normal. Our '25 Tri didn't track perfectly straight since delivery. SC performed a complimentary alignment and then it tracked straight. When I had our first rotation done (22" Scorpions) it had a hard pull to the right under brisk acceleration. SC test drove it and confirmed the pull and swapped the front wheels. It then pulled hard to the left. The balanced wheels/tires and it didn't help. Diagnosis was a defective tire that was originally on the passenger rear. The told me they could sell me a new one or I could make a claim with Pirelli. The didn't offer to make the claim.

I took it to Discount Tire with the service notes and they immediately warrantied a new tire. Pro-rated so a new Scorpion cost me about $270 and included lifetime rotations of all 4 wheels. It tracks perfectly straight with the new tire.

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