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Babbuino

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My main concern about not having CP is that I've seen a few photos with the phone mounted, and I'm sure those weren't Ubers. If people driving them still feel the need to use a <7" screen instead of the huge display Rivian offers, then something may be missing.
I hope Rivian fixes those gaps and make their infotainment and maps better, so we don't have to get another accessory. Anyway, I'm still waiting to try it out, but since I'm in FL, I'm sure it'll take some time.
 

Obioban

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I hate to break it to folks, but the subscription model is not only here to stay, but it will grow.

If you don't want a subscription to unlock features on your vehicle, or don't want your vehicle to push data back to the company (telemetry on vehicle performance, location, maintenance, use patterns, etc...), you should probably look at something from about 2012 and previous.

As for CarPlay/AndroidAuto, if there is no hardware requirement, or licensing fee that Rivian has to pay Apple or Google to put it in the car as an option... who knows, it might pop up.

That said, if they are trying to build a closed system, who is to say they won't build something equally good, if not better?

Everyone thought Apple was nuts to build the iPhone, or Tesla to make the model S... times change, tech changes, tastes evolve.

...it is literally why we are all here, and not on the Ford or GM forums.

Is CarPlay and AndroidAuto a miss? Maybe, but I'll reserve judgment until I've both experienced the UX myself, and they (Rivian) have had time to make adjustments.

...but that's just me.
Even if they made a system that was great, app developers are never going to put anywhere near the effort into a headunit with 0.00001% the install base of the iphone. Windows phone couldn't swing it with 1-3% of the market. So if you want waze for police notifications, you're SOL. If you want to use ABRP for charing locations, you're SOL. If you want to listen to the music service you already pay for, you're probably SOL. If you want to initiate HomeKit automations, you're SOL.

Tesla is easily the best case scenario for what Rivian could possible achieve (and they've had a decade to get it there), and it's still vastly limited compared to the flexiblity of CarPlay/AA. Oh, and you'll have to pay $44 a month for Rivian's inferior offering. Which, I will never do as this will be a car I drive 1-2 times a month, so that would just be flushing money down the toilet... so I'd have to go back to having a phone suction cupped to my windshield and a POS garage door opener clipped on to my sun visor.

Plus, 90% of what I listen to is podcasts and audio books, which can only stay synced between cars
if they're being played off the same device every time (phone). My other 4 cars have CarPlay...

Garbage. If they don't go back on CarPlay, I just won't buy the truck. 100% ruinous for me.

... And, speaking of GM forums, the Hummer EV does have CarPlay-- it's seeming like an increasingly appealing alternative.
 

mkg3

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Really don't care much about CarPlay or AA but I wish Rivian provides AirPlay2 onto the center screen when its parked.

I've gotten used to watching D+, Netflix on Tesla while charging on the center screen.

If Rivian accommodates AirPlay2, then I can go from my iPhone to the center screen.
 

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JakiChan

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RJ assured me that the Spotify would be a better way to craft my personal soundtrack than the randomness of SiriusXM. He's a quick study. I think my expression told him that that was a disappointing response. He waited about two seconds before saying something like "Really. If you give it a chance, I think you're going to love Spotify."
My answer to that would be short and suite.

"You're wrong. I tried Spotify. I voted with my wallet. I dropped Spotify and use Apple Music and SiriusXM instead. I'm not going to upend my entire music ecosystem for you."

He doesn't want to have to incorporate an assortment of others' hardware and software when they can build their own to their exact specs and design.
Then he needs to have better developers than Tesla...and Google and Apple. I can guarantee he doesn't have more resources than they do.

I'll be honest, the more I hear about RJ the more I'm glad I have deposits on both a Rivian and a Lightning. The Rivian features are awesome and I don't really need the "work truck" stuff that a Lightning does, but at least I know I won't be trapped by one guy's vision who thinks he's better than everyone else...

There is no way to integrate that functionality into an iOS or Android app short of Rivian making their own navigation apps for those platforms that would link the truck's system. It makes no sense for them to do that.
That's already been shown to be not true.

I think the publicity of a bunch of people running out of battery because they are following Apple Maps, or ABRP, or Waze, or "name your app here" would be far more detrimental to the brand then the relatively small number of owners or potential owners who are upset about not having CP or AA.
And yet the stupidity of the navigation app from Tesla is already harming EVs because it makes stupid decisions that makes the charging time problems look even worse than they are. Go to any Tesla forum and it's like "Oh, Tesla road trip planning sucks, use ABRP."

Already today you can convey state of charge and range information to CarPlay, which can be used for EV route planning at least in Apple Maps (don't know if other apps also support it, but certainly they will in the future if they don't already). This is not a stumbling block.
I think the DOT should mandate an EV API that every car should have. But that's just me.

It’s kind of like Porsche charging tens of thousands for custom or semi-custom paint colors or like Tesla charging what they charge for a white interior versus black in the M3 and MY. These things seem to be a cash-grab given what I imagine the actual costs are to the manufacturer, but for those customers willing to pay the price, it is worth it for them to get what they want.
I'm gonna defend PTS here a bit. It both adds value to a car as well as ads complexity to the built. As far as Porsche goes they say that for any given model year there are at most two identical cars made - every car is custom in some way. They've set up to support that and it's very expensive. It works for them, the waiting list is a mile long and they don't necessarily want to ramp up production to be mass market.

Does Rivian wanna be niche or mass market? Elon wants to be mass market for sure, so he doesn't have a lot of options.
 

DuckTruck

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My answer to that would be short and suite.

"You're wrong. I tried Spotify. I voted with my wallet. I dropped Spotify and use Apple Music and SiriusXM instead. I'm not going to upend my entire music ecosystem for you."



Then he needs to have better developers than Tesla...and Google and Apple. I can guarantee he doesn't have more resources than they do.

I'll be honest, the more I hear about RJ the more I'm glad I have deposits on both a Rivian and a Lightning. The Rivian features are awesome and I don't really need the "work truck" stuff that a Lightning does, but at least I know I won't be trapped by one guy's vision who thinks he's better than everyone else...



That's already been shown to be not true.



And yet the stupidity of the navigation app from Tesla is already harming EVs because it makes stupid decisions that makes the charging time problems look even worse than they are. Go to any Tesla forum and it's like "Oh, Tesla road trip planning sucks, use ABRP."



I think the DOT should mandate an EV API that every car should have. But that's just me.



I'm gonna defend PTS here a bit. It both adds value to a car as well as ads complexity to the built. As far as Porsche goes they say that for any given model year there are at most two identical cars made - every car is custom in some way. They've set up to support that and it's very expensive. It works for them, the waiting list is a mile long and they don't necessarily want to ramp up production to be mass market.

Does Rivian wanna be niche or mass market? Elon wants to be mass market for sure, so he doesn't have a lot of options.
John,

Thanks for your feedback. While my limited experience with Spotify has been decent, as I stated previously, I'd prefer to keep Sirius/XM as well. I love Deep Tracks and its neighborhood of Rock stations. That said, I'm willing to take the leap of faith and try it as delivered by Rivian.

RJ's reasoning for controlling all the hardware struck a chord with me. Last Summer, I fired up my Volvo and took off through my neighborhood. I was bummed that there were no tunes playing. Either S/XM or Volvo displayed a message of "Downloading updates" or "Updating downloads". Regardless, when it finally came on, it hit me at full volume, with the windows up, no less. Unfortunately for me, something like Led Zeppelin's "Rock and Roll" was playing. Simultaneously, I pulled over, turned it down, and tried not to relieve my bowels. While I successfully completed the first and third steps, upon releasing the knob, the volume shot right back up to 100% (before anyone asks, turning off that radio takes a few seconds). I assumed turning it down would stop the explosive blast from those speakers, but it didn't. My tinnitus persists to this day.

Of course Volvo blamed S/XM, and S/XM blamed Volvo. Point being, this type of glitch may have been prevented if the entire system was monolithic in its design and control. All I can say is that I'm willing to give it a try. Maybe I'll have all those music sources available via Bluetooth (I'll still have S/XM for other cars). If the sound quality isn't the best, oh well, neither is my hearing anymore. When RJ says "It'll be great", I believe him. The good news is that, if it malfunctions, I'll only need to make one call to bitch about it:

RJ: "Hello. This is RJ.....Hello?"

Me: "WHAT!!!.....HELLO!!!....IS ANYONE THERE!!!"

RJ: "Oh, DuckTruck.....I SAID 'HELLO DUCKTRUCK!!!'.....HELLO!!!....WHY DON'T YOU TEXT ME!!!"

I'm hopeful/pretty confident that this call will never take place.
 

hola29

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Lol...the comments on this topic.

Jobs, Elon, Sergei/Page, Gates, Bezos...if they thought like people on this forum - I don't even know - but best believe they thought this at one point "one guy's vision who thinks he's better than everyone else..."

The Rivian is not for everyone. Neither was a personal computer in the early 80's, or an iPhone/Android when those came out, or the WWW in the 90's. Rivian is an early adopter vehicle for people that see a vision inline with the company. If you don't great, some other choices.

Google maps and Waze were nixed from Carplay for competitive reasons until Apple could work on their maps...They needed folks in the ecosystem to help. Rivian is likely doing the same.

I abhor Carplay, one of the worst interfaces Apple has ever released, but the large auto companies were worse. Now with an integrated approach, and software focus, kicking the pants off Carplay is insight.

Glad RJ is focusing on innovation and not listening to the folks that reviled a touchscreen for their phones w/ the iPhone and Android came out - folks not to listen to when building a company.

I'll be honest, the more I hear about RJ the more I'm glad I have deposits on both a Rivian and a Lightning. The Rivian features are awesome and I don't really need the "work truck" stuff that a Lightning does, but at least I know I won't be trapped by one guy's vision who thinks he's better than everyone else...
 

JakiChan

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Jobs, Elon, Sergei/Page, Gates, Bezos...if they thought like people on this forum - I don't even know - but best believe they thought this at one point "one guy's vision who thinks he's better than everyone else..."
So a few things about that list:

Even Jobs didn't lock in that hard. Guess what, he gave the iPhone apps. And that's what made it work. Apple doesn't force you to use their Maps, they try to compete and make it better. They tie it in to their ecosystem (try using Apple Maps while wearing a Watch, it's fun), but they dont' stop Waze.

Meanwhile, Tesla has locked people out, folks admit their nav sucks, and ABRP exists because it sucks. A crappy workaround that is unnecessary. Odd.

Google maps and Waze were nixed from Carplay for competitive reasons until Apple could work on their maps
And yet they work fine now.

I abhor Carplay, one of the worst interfaces Apple has ever released, but the large auto companies were worse. Now with an integrated approach, and software focus, kicking the pants off Carplay is insight.
You wouldn't be forced to use it. Why are you against choice?

I guess there's one choice...not buy a Rivian. Seems a same that the only way you can get an otherwise great product is to give up so much innovation.
 

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So a few things about that list:

Even Jobs didn't lock in that hard. Guess what, he gave the iPhone apps. And that's what made it work. Apple doesn't force you to use their Maps, they try to compete and make it better. They tie it in to their ecosystem (try using Apple Maps while wearing a Watch, it's fun), but they dont' stop Waze.
exactly! If rivian thinks they can build better, do it! I welcome it! But forcing people to have no other choice isn‘t exuding confidence that they can actually build better.

now give me choice and if you ARE better then I’ll choose you. We both win.
 

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hola29

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You are incorrect, and wildly so, they ALL locked in hard because it made business sense and they had a vision not 12 months down the road but 120

Pretty confident RJ can ignore the noise as well and build a great company. We’ll see.

So a few things about that list:

Even Jobs didn't lock in that hard. Guess what, he gave the iPhone apps. And that's what made it work. Apple doesn't force you to use their Maps, they try to compete and make it better. They tie it in to their ecosystem (try using Apple Maps while wearing a Watch, it's fun), but they dont' stop Waze.

Meanwhile, Tesla has locked people out, folks admit their nav sucks, and ABRP exists because it sucks. A crappy workaround that is unnecessary. Odd.



And yet they work fine now.



You wouldn't be forced to use it. Why are you against choice?

I guess there's one choice...not buy a Rivian. Seems a same that the only way you can get an otherwise great product is to give up so much innovation.
 

IPTV65

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You are incorrect, and wildly so, they ALL locked in hard because it made business sense and they had a vision not 12 months down the road but 120

Pretty confident RJ can ignore the noise as well and build a great company. We’ll see.
The discussion is too generic to be applicable. There is HW, OS, and applications. You are discussing applications(maps,music,ABRP…). Nobody in their right mind locks someone into applications IF you are focused on selling HW and OS. Apple doesn’t, Google doesn’t, Samsung doesn’t, Toyota doesn’t BMW doesn’t ….. They focus on HW and platforms that enable applications. You can still make money on apps. See the Apple App Store.

It can be argued that it’s prudent to have a solid and controlled(Apple)HW and OS environment. I personally feel the argument for apps lock-in is weak at best based upon my experience.

1)Humans have this thing called personal preference. If your goal is to sell a car(phone,TV, watch…) to as many folks as possible you need to account for that. If I am a car company first and foremost why would I risk losing a car sale over someone’s personal app preference? If they don’t buy who lost out and how was it worth it over an app? Is the app so lucrative that you can lose some percentage of sales just over that? 2)Being an app developer is a very different business than being a car company. Show me any car company that is better than a dedicated app company for like functionality, for every single app a person wants in their car. Why did Rivian partner with Spotify? Surely they can spend a hundred million to get a bigger music library and make a better backend and UI than Spotify so why didn’t they? …Just applying the maps logic to music. Also see item #1

Just my SW experience and two cents but a young car company struggling to get out of the gate with finite resources should focus on making car HW and SW. Bring the infotainment HW and OS necessary to enable the apps(and if they want to throw their own in the mix great) but they don’t have the time nor money to keep up with personal preference nor the global app developer community.

BTW when they move to markets outside the US this will get even worse. Big shocker but what we think is “cool” in the US is not globally applicable. Yep…gonna have to change and maintain everything.

If they really make a killer maps app then great folks will use it.

Last comment:I think some, but not all, are unaware AA and CP are apps on the phone not apps on the car infotainment system. The car display is simply mirroring the phone and simple APIs are used to make touch input work. The heavy lifting is not done on the car side. Updates don’t involve the car side unless the car manufacturer changes something. If it sucks it’s on Apple or Google. If it’s sucks is also a matter of personal opinion.
 

hola29

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You folks are so wrong and so out to lunch I am going to stop replying on this thread... THEY ALL TRY TO CONTROL APPS, ECOSYSTEMS, ETC!!!

For god sake, do you know when Apple allowed Waze in Carplay? How about the APP store delay for public apps, then approvals, and challenges with any app the competes with apple. Or gsuite, or Oracle, or NetApp, or Cisco, or about every single tech company ever...You don't listen to brand new customers whine about competing products...lol.

It appears many here have not a clue about how technology companies run, and are buying a car from a technology company, not a great match...

Peace folks...Have fun w/ your iPhones/Android phones suctioned cupped to your Rivians...lol

Nobody in their right mind locks someone into applications IF you are focused on selling HW and OS. Apple doesn’t, Google doesn’t, Samsung doesn’t, Toyota doesn’t BMW doesn’t ….. They focus on HW and platforms that enable applications. You can still make money on apps. See the Apple App Store.
 
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