My shopping adventure: Rivian vs F150 Lightning

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Hummer is too expensive, plus I don't trust GM too much right now after the whole Chevy Bolt debacle.
I can understand that. But, to be fair, LG has pretty much admitted it's their screwup. They're even paying GM $1.9Billion for the whole mess.
 

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So I'm here going back and forth on either an R1T or an F150 Lightning. I've done some pricing work below. As you can see, even the R1T Explore pkg. compares VERY favorably to the Lariat trim. With the Lariat, you have to add $7000 to get 300miles of range. So I've pretty much eliminated that from consideration. If I get a Lightning, it'll be an XLT+. Based on Ford's customer survey, that should come in at $4000 less than an R1T with the Explorer pkg. Again, the R1T is much better equipped.

Just going back and forth in my mind on this and documenting it here. Feel free to chime in. I'll be editing this as I gather more info. I need to decide soon as the F150 Lightning's order bank is opening next week.

Lightning Pro/Con:
Pros:
  1. Larger vehicle with more bed and cab space. Some will see this as a negative but, for me, bigger is better.
  2. Potentially longer range with extended battery. I base this off Ford's claim they are rating their EV with 1000lbs of cargo and a passenger.
  3. Massive, and easier to access Frunk. Also a lot of outlets both front and back.
  4. Home power backup.
  5. Very large Ford service network. Three near me that are ready for EV servicing.
  6. I have a very early reservation and would be likely to take delivery early.
  7. XLT and XLT+ trims bring a lot of value.
  8. Tailgate step (I have bad knees..)
  9. Large flat space under the rear seats.
  10. Extended Range battery comes with an 80amp home charger
  11. XLT+ has physical HVAC and Audio buttons (lariat has a 15" screen with no buttons)
  12. Dual glove boxes.
Cons
  1. Not an, out of the box, off road vehicle. Lower ground clearance. No air suspension.
  2. Ford Dealer network.
  3. Lariat trim is $10K more than the XLT+ and doesn't give enough value, to me, to justify the cost.
  4. Blue Cruise is cheap, but not very capable. Also only available on the Lariat
  5. Lower Horsepower and torque than the Rivian (but still very good)
R1T Pro/Con
Pros:
  1. Base model has 300+ range for the about the same price as the Lariat with less range (Ford's extended range battery costs an extra $7000)
  2. Base model is MUCH better equipped than the Lariat.
    1. Air Compressor (basic ARB compressor is about $400)
    2. Standard Tonneau cover (Rollup Tonneau covers can be an extra $1000)
    3. Doesn't appear to need a spray in Berliner (extra $400)
    4. BT Speaker (not a 'need' for me but still very cool)
    5. Flashlight (just good thinking there)
  3. MOAR POWA!! Geez this thing is a beast.
  4. Air suspension is standard.
  5. Novel storage options. (the tunnel is kick ass)
  6. Crossbar option is going to be very useful to me. (really, everyone should do that)
  7. Faster Charging
  8. MASSIVE Brembo Brakes
Cons:
  1. $1800 for AT tires and 20s is a rip off. $800 for a spare is as well.
  2. $2000 off road package is overpriced as well.
  3. Paint options are excessive too.
  4. Wall charger is extra
  5. Service network will be limited for a while (but I like their plans)
  6. Ordering today means waiting until late 2022 or early 2023 (fingers crossed)
  7. $550 a year subscription service (not yet sure this brings enough value to me)
  8. $10000 self driving that is very limited in its capabilities.
  9. TINY bed.
  10. Questionable wheel and tire choice for ATs. (20" wheels with 34" Scorpions)
  11. I haven't ridden in or driven one.
  12. No CarPlay (seriously, WTF.. at least give me Waze)
  13. No physical buttons for HVAC or Audio.
  14. No glovebox

Rivian R1T
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Ford F150 Lightning
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I just recently cancelled my reservation for the lightning. Here’s my 2 cents on why. I’m not going to need the extra foot of space for cargo, I basically just stuffed it to go on trips and occasional furniture move for my rentals. Ford is just not known for quality anymore,my current 2015 F150 I’ve had for almost 6 years now. It’s had its share of troubles, nothing huge or I would have sold it years ago but annoying things and rattles and leaks and squeaks. Seats are worn out in the front and I have 65000 miles. The vehicle to home charging will happen with Rivian too and once I heard RJ mention that in the round table interview I was stoked! Really that was monumental to me. In addition to the fact The F150 will also not fit in garage…. 😔I’m maxing it out, I’m not leaving a 100 k vehicle sitting in my driveway, period. Not leaving that to chance even with Karen watching over…no wait that was the R1S… I just do not feel that I want to drive a truck that looks just like the one I got except it’s electric. No excitement, I like to drive, I loved my BMW, they handle so nicely. The F 150 well, even with 250 lbs of sand in the back for winter ❄ I t does not handle that well. I’m just not confident it will even be in the same realm when it comes to driving, I know they have videos of the slalom, I was not impressed. really driving and handling is everything to me if I’m spending my money. If it doesn’t drive or handle any better than my former than it really is not worth it. Rivian built it from the ground up, can you say McLaren like suspension? I rest my case… 😎
 

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My apologies if already addressed elsewhere…i assume the ~$55 monthly subscription fee includes AT&T LTE correct? If you don’t subscribe can you then use a mobile hotspot? Do we assume basic functionality would be limited?
I wonder what the $55 would be for exactly. Tesla charges $10 per month for premium connectivity. This includes live traffic, satellite maps, music, etc. on my wife‘s Volvo the month fee is $15 a month for data (ATT) and then a flat fee about $400 I think for 3-5 years for the app and other features.
 

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Thank you for your comparison. No CarPlay, and only Spotify are intriguing choices given that their UI is still at an early stage. Not supporting carplay leaves a lot of people out of their music, and navigation habits. Supporting it would solve the Bluetooth poor music quality issue, and the inability to have lossless audio since media streaming on carplay is done through wifi.

It could be that they want people to use it and find issues for them to polish it. Still, they said that they don’t exclude an OTA update to support it if the demand is high enough. So I’m hoping that people will voice their need and they make it happens. For now, it’s a big bummer for me…
I am shocked they don’t already have Amazon Music as they are planning big integration with Alexa.
 

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I just recently cancelled my reservation for the lightning. Here’s my 2 cents on why. I’m not going to need the extra foot of space for cargo, I basically just stuffed it to go on trips and occasional furniture move for my rentals. Ford is just not known for quality anymore,my current 2015 F150 I’ve had for almost 6 years now. It’s had its share of troubles, nothing huge or I would have sold it years ago but annoying things and rattles and leaks and squeaks. Seats are worn out in the front and I have 65000 miles. The vehicle to home charging will happen with Rivian too and once I heard RJ mention that in the round table interview I was stoked! Really that was monumental to me. In addition to the fact The F150 will also not fit in garage…. 😔I’m maxing it out, I’m not leaving a 100 k vehicle sitting in my driveway, period. Not leaving that to chance even with Karen watching over…no wait that was the R1S… I just do not feel that I want to drive a truck that looks just like the one I got except it’s electric. No excitement, I like to drive, I loved my BMW, they handle so nicely. The F 150 well, even with 250 lbs of sand in the back for winter ❄ I t does not handle that well. I’m just not confident it will even be in the same realm when it comes to driving, I know they have videos of the slalom, I was not impressed. really driving and handling is everything to me if I’m spending my money. If it doesn’t drive or handle any better than my former than it really is not worth it. Rivian built it from the ground up, can you say McLaren like suspension? I rest my case… 😎
I had a 2019 F150 Lariat for a year and a half and had 0 issues with it, so I trust Ford to do a good job with the Lightning. But if I were in a situation where the F150 didn't fit in my garage, I would wait for the R1T. I never leave my vehicles parked outside.
 

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I wonder what the $55 would be for exactly. Tesla charges $10 per month for premium connectivity. This includes live traffic, satellite maps, music, etc. on my wife‘s Volvo the month fee is $15 a month for data (ATT) and then a flat fee about $400 I think for 3-5 years for the app and other features.
It includes RAN charging and other events and potentially added vehicle features/drive modes (k turn?)
 

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Something else to consider for Ford is the Ford Options payment plan:

https://www.ford.com/finance/finance-options/ford-options/

Pretty sure it will be available to the F150L.

It's a mix between a lease and standard financing. You own the car (get tax credit), but have a couple of options at the end of the "lease". Kind of takes the burden off "owning" the first model., so if there are major issues you have the option to walk away or if you really like it either pay the balloon payment or refinance.

I've estimated the XLT+ Extended Range for me would end up being: ~$770 monthly payment for 36 months (downpayment of $17K). So, paying $34-44K to drive that car for 3 years (depending on tax credits). If I like it a lot, I can pay the ballon payment of ~28-38K. Or, if the value tanked, I can just give it back to Ford... Or if the value is crazy, sell it privately and get the next-generation.
 
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I just recently cancelled my reservation for the lightning. Here’s my 2 cents on why. I’m not going to need the extra foot of space for cargo, I basically just stuffed it to go on trips and occasional furniture move for my rentals. Ford is just not known for quality anymore,my current 2015 F150 I’ve had for almost 6 years now. It’s had its share of troubles, nothing huge or I would have sold it years ago but annoying things and rattles and leaks and squeaks. Seats are worn out in the front and I have 65000 miles. The vehicle to home charging will happen with Rivian too and once I heard RJ mention that in the round table interview I was stoked! Really that was monumental to me. In addition to the fact The F150 will also not fit in garage…. 😔I’m maxing it out, I’m not leaving a 100 k vehicle sitting in my driveway, period. Not leaving that to chance even with Karen watching over…no wait that was the R1S… I just do not feel that I want to drive a truck that looks just like the one I got except it’s electric. No excitement, I like to drive, I loved my BMW, they handle so nicely. The F 150 well, even with 250 lbs of sand in the back for winter ❄ I t does not handle that well. I’m just not confident it will even be in the same realm when it comes to driving, I know they have videos of the slalom, I was not impressed. really driving and handling is everything to me if I’m spending my money. If it doesn’t drive or handle any better than my former than it really is not worth it. Rivian built it from the ground up, can you say McLaren like suspension? I rest my case… 😎
Yea, I sold my 2019 Raptor last summer (made good money on it too). It was a performance monster but it also had the cam phaser failure that had me without a truck for a week. Frankly, with the parts shortages, I was lucky to have it fixed that quickly.
I had a 2019 F150 Lariat for a year and a half and had 0 issues with it, so I trust Ford to do a good job with the Lightning. But if I were in a situation where the F150 didn't fit in my garage, I would wait for the R1T. I never leave my vehicles parked outside.
I’ve had a couple F150s in the past. A 2011 XLT FX2 and 2019 Raptor. The FX2 was FLAWLESS. Not a single issue. The Raptor, however, had the dreaded Cam Phaser issue. I was lucky in that my dealer actually had the parts on hand. I was without a truck from just a week. I sold the Raptor last summer, when used car values were through the roof. I actually made money on it, getting $3K more than I actually paid for it.

One reason I want an R1T is that it’s a high performance off roader, similar to my old Raptor. I don’t think it’s setup to be a desert runner, but I mostly used my Raptor for rocky Colorado mountain trails anyways. The Rivian is more suited for that IMO. The only real downside to the R1T is the small bed. My iKamper RTT will stick about a foot and a half past the tailgate. So I’ll have to put it up on the roof.
 

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Just joined the forum and am wading through the purchase options between the Lightning and Rivian R1T. I have pre-orders for both. I've developed nearly identical spreadsheets to assist in the decision making. Largest frustration is lack of real details from Ford to make an apples/apples comparison. Lots of rumors out there regarding actual range of the base battery....many are expecting Ford to over deliver on the 230 mile range. If actual range numbers come in near 300 vice 230 for the Lightning base battery, than the Lariat to R1T comparison gets pretty interesting.
 

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I've driven and gotten full looks at the Lightning and the R1T the truck Ford keeps showing off is the platinum and by the time you speck it out its a lot more money than the R1T. The lightning is good and its fast but it has nothing on the Rivian.
 

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Yea, I sold my 2019 Raptor last summer (made good money on it too). It was a performance monster but it also had the cam phaser failure that had me without a truck for a week. Frankly, with the parts shortages, I was lucky to have it fixed that quickly.


I’ve had a couple F150s in the past. A 2011 XLT FX2 and 2019 Raptor. The FX2 was FLAWLESS. Not a single issue. The Raptor, however, had the dreaded Cam Phaser issue. I was lucky in that my dealer actually had the parts on hand. I was without a truck from just a week. I sold the Raptor last summer, when used car values were through the roof. I actually made money on it, getting $3K more than I actually paid for it.

One reason I want an R1T is that it’s a high performance off roader, similar to my old Raptor. I don’t think it’s setup to be a desert runner, but I mostly used my Raptor for rocky Colorado mountain trails anyways. The Rivian is more suited for that IMO. The only real downside to the R1T is the small bed. My iKamper RTT will stick about a foot and a half past the tailgate. So I’ll have to put it up on the roof.
It will be interesting to see what that will do to the range. Any reason other than aesthetics to not just let it overhang the tailgate? I was thinking of getting a swing out hitch mounted tire holder to even out the look of a longer bed mounted rtt. Plus that frees up more storage under the bed.
 
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It will be interesting to see what that will do to the range. Any reason other than aesthetics to not just let it overhang the tailgate? I was thinking of getting a swing out hitch mounted tire holder to even out the look of a longer bed mounted rtt. Plus that frees up more storage under the bed.
I don't see any problem with having the RTT overhanging the tailgate when driving. I'm speculating here, but when the tent is deployed, it will be quite a bit off center. I'm a little concerned that a person sleeping past the load bars may put too much stress on the tent's structure. I don't think this would be any issue on the roof. Either way, it will still work for me.

I'm also going to consider a swing out hitch. But the frunk and gear tunnel are going to minimize the amount of gear I actually put in the truck bed. So I'm a bit less concerned about that.
 

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Note the dimensions of the RT1 are roughly between those of a Ford Ranger and Ford Lightning (latter is similar to a F150).

R1T is 217.1" long, 135.9" wheelbase, 81.8" wide

Ford Lightning/F150 is 232.7" long, 145.5" wheelbase, 83.6" wide

Ford Ranger is 211" long, 126.8" wheelbase, 78" wide
 
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Note the dimensions of the RT1 are roughly between those of a Ford Ranger and Ford Lightning (latter is similar to a F150).

RT1 is 217.1" long, 135.9" wheelbase, 81.8" wide

Ford Lightning/F150 is 232.7" long, 145.5" wheelbase, 83.6" wide

Ford Ranger is 211" long, 126.8" wheelbase, 78" wide
Yup, and they put all that space into the cab. The bed is much smaller than the Rangers.
 
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