My shopping adventure: Rivian vs F150 Lightning

[Rivuylkill]

Blue Cruise is Ford's self driving service. It's a $2000 option

Isn't Blue Cruise more like Driver+ (fancy cruise control) and not 10000 aka full self driving?

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[Sgt Beavis]

Isn't Blue Cruise more like Driver+ (fancy cruise control) and not 10000 aka full self driving?

I wouldn't criticize you for saying that.
To date, I'm only impressed with Tesla FSD and GM's Super Cruise. But I still wouldn't buy either one. Driver+ hasn't shown enough for me to have a full formed opinion on it.

 

[Rivuylkill]

I wouldn't criticize you for saying that.
To date, I'm only impressed with Tesla FSD and GM's Super Cruise. But I still wouldn't buy either one. Driver+ hasn't shown enough for me to have a full formed opinion on it.

Right, only saying that for your comparison's sake, Driver+ seems comparable to Blue Cruise and is included vs the 2k option. The later 10k option is different unless I'm misunderstanding.

 

[3l3c7r1c]

Good comparison!

I am also giving a second thought on $2k off road package. For the price of the vehicle, $2k is not much and I might get $1k back in residual value. But for the purpose of off-road, it's mostly useless to me since it's highly unlikely I'll go over any boulder. But I am thinking that underbody plate might protect the battery from road debris. Catching fire from road debris used to happen a lot for Tesla.

 

[3l3c7r1c]

Isn't Blue Cruise more like Driver+ (fancy cruise control) and not 10000 aka full self driving?

Blue cruise is hands free Lane Keep Assist. To me LKA is basically useless if I can't remove my hands from the steering wheel. I'd put Ford's option much ahead.

 

[Rivuylkill]

Good comparison!

I am also giving a second thought on $2k off road package. For the price of the vehicle, $2k is not much and I might get $1k back in residual value. But for the purpose of off-road, it's mostly useless to me since it's highly unlikely I'll go over any boulder. But I am thinking that underbody plate might protect the battery from road debris. Catching fire from road debris used to happen a lot for Tesla.

The base underbody/battery protection can support the weight of the truck on a 2 inch square. The optional package is for matching front/rear skid plates but from what I take away from that conversation, doesn't add anything for the main underbody.

 

[GearsGrindn]

So I'm here going back and forth on either an R1T or an F150 Lightning. I've done some pricing work below. As you can see, even the R1T Explore pkg. compares VERY favorably to the Lariat trim. With the Lariat, you have to add $7000 to get 300miles of range. So I've pretty much eliminated that from consideration. If I get a Lightning, it'll be an XLT+. Based on Ford's customer survey, that should come in at $4000 less than an R1T with the Explorer pkg. Again, the R1T is much better equipped.

Just going back and forth in my mind on this and documenting it here. Feel free to chime in. I'll be editing this as I gather more info. I need to decide soon as the F150 Lightning's order bank is opening next week.

Lightning Pro/Con:
Pros:

1. Larger vehicle with more bed and cab space. Some will see this as a negative but, for me, bigger is better.
2. Potentially longer range with extended battery. I base this off Ford's claim they are rating their EV with 1000lbs of cargo and a passenger.
3. Massive, and easier to access Frunk. Also a lot of outlets both front and back.
4. Home power backup.
5. Very large Ford service network. Three near me that are ready for EV servicing.
6. I have a very early reservation and would be likely to take delivery early.
7. XLT and XLT+ trims bring a lot of value.
8. Tailgate step (I have bad knees..)
9. Large flat space under the rear seats.
10. Extended Range battery comes with an 80amp home charger
11. XLT+ has physical HVAC and Audio buttons (lariat has a 15" screen with no buttons)
12. Dual glove boxes.

Cons

1. Not an, out of the box, off road vehicle. Lower ground clearance. No air suspension.
2. Ford Dealer network.
3. Lariat trim is $10K more than the XLT+ and doesn't give enough value, to me, to justify the cost.
4. Blue Cruise is cheap, but not very capable. Also only available on the Lariat
5. Lower Horsepower and torque than the Rivian (but still very good)

R1T Pro/Con
Pros:

1. Base model has 300+ range for the about the same price as the Lariat with less range (Ford's extended range battery costs an extra $7000)
2. Base model is MUCH better equipped than the Lariat.
   1. Air Compressor (basic ARB compressor is about $400)
   2. Standard Tonneau cover (Rollup Tonneau covers can be an extra $1000)
   3. Doesn't appear to need a spray in Berliner (extra $400)
   4. BT Speaker (not a 'need' for me but still very cool)
   5. Flashlight (just good thinking there)
3. MOAR POWA!! Geez this thing is a beast.
4. Air suspension is standard.
5. Novel storage options. (the tunnel is kick ass)
6. Crossbar option is going to be very useful to me. (really, everyone should do that)
7. Faster Charging
8. MASSIVE Brembo Brakes

Cons:

1. $1800 for AT tires and 20s is a rip off. $800 for a spare is as well.
2. $2000 off road package is overpriced as well.
3. Paint options are excessive too.
4. Wall charger is extra
5. Service network will be limited for a while (but I like their plans)
6. Ordering today means waiting until late 2022 or early 2023 (fingers crossed)
7. $550 a year subscription service (not yet sure this brings enough value to me)
8. $10000 self driving that is very limited in its capabilities.
9. TINY bed.
10. Questionable wheel and tire choice for ATs. (20" wheels with 34" Scorpions)
11. I haven't ridden in or driven one.
12. No CarPlay (seriously, WTF.. at least give me Waze)
13. No physical buttons for HVAC or Audio.
14. No glovebox

Rivian R1T

Ford F150 Lightning

I've owned an F150 Lariat Powerstroke. Familiar with the Lightning, but the R1T will fit in my garage. Very important. Also, the Powerstroke Lariat was stripped down. The R1T has the standard self-driving tech that will become desirable as I age (I'm 42 now). Lightning now has the frunk which was my only complaint about the Powerstroke - however, Rivian has a frunk + gear tunnel and the in-bed storage of the Ridgeline. So its a wash but advantage Rivian. I likely will not spring for the spare tire as I stay on-road and haven't had a flat in years. I intend to spring for the max-pack battery (400 mile range) as that fits my lifestyle and maximizes resale vale (for what its worth). Biggest decision point for me is will it fit in the garage? YMMV

 

[DucRider]

Good comparison!

I am also giving a second thought on $2k off road package. For the price of the vehicle, $2k is not much and I might get $1k back in residual value. But for the purpose of off-road, it's mostly useless to me since it's highly unlikely I'll go over any boulder. But I am thinking that underbody plate might protect the battery from road debris. Catching fire from road debris used to happen a lot for Tesla.

1) Happened "a lot" with Tesla was twice (three times?)
2) Rivian has a plate protecting the battery even without the off road package

 

[3l3c7r1c]

The base underbody/battery protection can support the weight of the truck on a 2 inch square. The optional package is for matching front/rear skid plates but from what I take away from that conversation, doesn't add anything for the main underbody.

Thanks! I didn't know that. I'll probably drop the off road package then

 

[Rivuylkill]

Blue cruise is hands free Lane Keep Assist. To me LKA is basically useless if I can't remove my hands from the steering wheel. I'd put Ford's option much ahead.

I don't want to beat any horses but isn't that also what Driver+ is? And I don't know if you saw the Sandy Munro video about Blue Cruise but I'm not sure how hands off it is yet. Granted there's not a lot of detail on Driver+ yet either.

 

[Rivianmd]

My apologies if already addressed elsewhere…i assume the ~$55 monthly subscription fee includes AT&T LTE correct? If you don’t subscribe can you then use a mobile hotspot? Do we assume basic functionality would be limited?

 

[3l3c7r1c]

I don't want to beat any horses but isn't that also what Driver+ is? And I don't know if you saw the Sandy Munro video about Blue Cruise but I'm not sure how hands off it is yet. Granted there's not a lot of detail on Driver+ yet either.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see anywhere Rivian said driver+ is hands free https://rivian.com/support/article/what-features-are-included-in-rivian-driver

Blue Cruise might not be ready yet but they will be similar to GM's Super Cruise.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

My apologies if already addressed elsewhere…i assume the ~$55 monthly subscription fee includes AT&T LTE correct? If you don’t subscribe can you then use a mobile hotspot? Do we assume basic functionality would be limited?

Ugh.. I wish they weren't using ATT. Verizon has MUCH better coverage in the mountains around Colorado.

 

[Sdvictor]

10000 aka full self driving

"Full self driving" as a moniker should be getting Tesla fined quite heavily for overselling an L2 system as something more than that. Plenty of people on the Tesla forums who have paid for it are furious for feeling like they're being scammed

 

[Sgt Beavis]

Well, my hand was forced after Rivian posted that they were bringing 1st Mile events to Denver. I put my order in. I'm keeping the price under $74000 until we know more about the EV Tax Credit. Once it's passed, I may change from an Explorer pkg to an Adventure pkg.

Of course, immediately after I placed my order, Rivian took the announcement down... ???

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