Max Pack Update? Anyone?

[shrink]

Not sure if I'm just having a weak moment, but the radio silence on Max Pack is not giving me a good vibe that this is going to happen anytime soon. I was previously given 1H2023 as delivery expectation about 6 months ago - not going to wait until then to just have it pushed further out. I'm changing my configuration to downsize the battery today... prove me wrong Rivian!

Now I'm waiting on OC...

I hear ya. I struggle with that choice, too. Waiting on a Max Pack and Ocean Coast. After my First Mile Drive in early June, I was ready to take an earlier delivery and go Large Pack and Black Mountain. However, I’m now back to waiting. I think the value of a Max Pack with pre 3/1 pricing is way too valuable to give up - especially considering battery degradation on a car I plan to keep for a long time.

This all could change once I got R1 Shop access and impulsive me might take over, but for now, I plan to be patient. Not really knowing when the Max Packs will be delivered makes it really hard to wait though.

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[crashmtb]

Not sure if I'm just having a weak moment, but the radio silence on Max Pack is not giving me a good vibe that this is going to happen anytime soon. I was previously given 1H2023 as delivery expectation about 6 months ago - not going to wait until then to just have it pushed further out. I'm changing my configuration to downsize the battery today... prove me wrong Rivian!

Now I'm waiting on OC...

I have lost all optimism. Now, indifference. It’ll get here when it gets here. If it gets here.

I will not compromise on battery capacity, unless EV infrastructure in western Canada and US magically improves in areas away from the trans canada highway and major interstates in a matter of months.


For Canadian customers, especially ones with max pack selected, the silence Is deafening.

 

[Atlrivian]

I also believe max pack with current tech will be killed. In a couple of years they may revive it if / when different chemistry is available.

 

[crashmtb]

I also believe max pack with current tech will be killed. In a couple of years they may revive it if / when different chemistry is available.

What is your reasoning?

 

[Atlrivian]

Rivian pessimism. Whenever they get around to manufacturing the max, it is just going to be an insane loss per vehicle if they sell at the pre 3/1 prices. I highly doubt they will produce 5k trucks at 25k+ losses/ vehicle from late 2023-24. Just too expensive to justify for a new company.

My prediction is they'll do whatever they can to push us to Large packs, or offer a downgraded dual motor option at the same cost for "expedited delivery."

 

[shrink]

What is your reasoning?

+1 on that.

Isn’t it just a matter of adding more battery cells to existing empty space as pictured?

Seems more supply chain issues right now. They can sell more Large Pack vehicles with the available battery supply?

 

[crashmtb]

+1 on that.

Isn’t it just a matter of adding more battery cells to existing empty space as pictured?

Seems more supply chain issues right now. They can sell more Large Pack vehicles with the available battery supply?

That‘s what I’ve been told as well. The required extra modules fill the remaining space in the frame.

A friend of a friend is PR guy for Rivian. Recently confirmed that it’s still 2023 for max pack, simply because demand for large pack is 4x that of max pack.

since it takes 1/3 more cells to make a max pack than a large pack, for every three max packs they can build a complete large pack.

 

[OverZealous]

Rivian pessimism. Whenever they get around to manufacturing the max, it is just going to be an insane loss per vehicle if they sell at the pre 3/1 prices. I highly doubt they will produce 5k trucks at 25k+ losses/ vehicle from late 2023-24. Just too expensive to justify for a new company.

This doesn't really make sense, because the Max Pack upgrade is the exact same cost post-3/1 pricing. In either case, it's a $10k upgrade to go from Large to Max.

And if you do the math on it using post-3/1 pricing, the Max Pack upgrade costs more money per kWh than the Large Pack upgrade.

• Small->Large: $6000 / (135kWh - 100kWh) = $171/kWh
• Large->Max: $10000 / (180kWh - 135kWh) = $222/kWh

Obviously there's no guarantee that the per-kWh price is directly comparable, but I'd argue that the actual profit is an even higher percentage, because so much of having a battery pack is fixed costs.

In reality, if they wanted to squeeze the pre-3/1 orders, they should be pushing us to get Max Packs, to increase the profit margin some.

This doesn't mean that they won't cancel it for other reasons (which would really suck).

 

[Atlrivian]

Poorly worded, but what I really meant was that due to inflation any vehicle pushed very far into the future would become progressively more expensive. Yes large packs Ts and Ss will also become more expensive.

It's just that I assume the Max will be the very last of the original vehicles produced. So they will end up being the most expensive relative to inflation and original prices.

 

[AxelR]

Initially the promise of a 400+ range (combined with nice aesthetics) is what made me jump on it.
Now the incessant changes in timeline, prices, battery capacity… make it less desirable.
I prefer the S but if I could get 400 miles in the T only, I’d make the switch.

 

[crashmtb]

Rivian pessimism. Whenever they get around to manufacturing the max, it is just going to be an insane loss per vehicle if they sell at the pre 3/1 prices. I highly doubt they will produce 5k trucks at 25k+ losses/ vehicle from late 2023-24. Just too expensive to justify for a new company.

My prediction is they'll do whatever they can to push us to Large packs, or offer a downgraded dual motor option at the same cost for "expedited delivery."

where is it documented thst they’re actually losing money(I.e. not breaking even) on the max pack option?
it’s not the customer’s problem if Rivian will lose money at the price they decided fo set. They could simply also increase the price of the max pack option to ”go away” levels, if it’s such a massive money loss to build it.

There has already been the push to get people to switch to large pack, months ago.

 

[Atlrivian]

where is it documented thst they’re actually losing money(I.e. not breaking even) on the max pack option?
it’s not the customer’s problem if Rivian will lose money at the price they decided fo set. They could simply also increase the price of the max pack option to ”go away” levels, if it’s such a massive money loss to build it.

There has already been the push to get people to switch to large pack, months ago.

It has not been recorded because they haven't built any yet . I seem to remember something from a few years ago that noted the cost to build a Large R1T at that time was 50k-ish (cant site my source).

With recent materials / shipping / fuel / labor / etc increases I'm sure those costs are over 70k now. Lucid exec and sandy munro have both been quoted saying to make a good profit, the R1T Larges would have to start from 95-110k.

Looking forward if it takes at least another year to start make them, costs will only increase. Again, I'm assuming inflation continues to give them price pressure for the next year or two.

My whole point is Rivian is still losing money hand over fist, and with scarce materials and high costs it doesn't make sense to make a Max right now. Am I happy about it? Absolutely not! I have wanted a Max for three years, but finally gave in and swapped to Large so I could at some point actually receive a truck.

 

[Olsonsolar]

This doesn't really make sense, because the Max Pack upgrade is the exact same cost post-3/1 pricing. In either case, it's a $10k upgrade to go from Large to Max.

And if you do the math on it using post-3/1 pricing, the Max Pack upgrade costs more money per kWh than the Large Pack upgrade.

• Small->Large: $6000 / (135kWh - 100kWh) = $171/kWh
• Large->Max: $10000 / (180kWh - 135kWh) = $222/kWh

Obviously there's no guarantee that the per-kWh price is directly comparable, but I'd argue that the actual profit is an even higher percentage, because so much of having a battery pack is fixed costs.

In reality, if they wanted to squeeze the pre-3/1 orders, they should be pushing us to get Max Packs, to increase the profit margin some.

This doesn't mean that they won't cancel it for other reasons (which would really suck).

Post 3-1 Max pricing is $16,000

 

[emoore]

Post 3-1 Max pricing is $16,000

That’s from small to max. Large to max is still a $10k upgrade.

 

[lostpacket]

update

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