Latest on Rivian's move to NACS?

[emoore]

Figure you'd say that...

Here's an article from Consumer Report dated 1/16/24:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...s-open-to-other-evs-what-to-know-a9262067544/

Couple of quotes from the article:

"...Magic Dock users must use the Tesla app instead of enjoying the seamless experience of simply plugging in for payment...."

and

"In addition to needing the adapter, automakers will have to write new software that allows non-Tesla vehicles to work with the Supercharger software. “You’re going to have a software update in most of these vehicles in order to have the vehicle communicate with the Superchargers,” says Sam Abuelsamid, principal research analyst at consulting firm Guidehouse Insights."

That last paragraph doesn't make any sense to me. If that were true then how do the magic docks work? They seem like "dumb" adapters but work with any CCS EV. Like Dark-Fx said, if Tesla wanted to they could open up all the V3 and V4 superchargers to any CCS with an adapter. You would just have to use the app like the magic docks.

I have a strange suspicion that the CCS to NACS adapters that Tesla is providing is going to be the exact same as the magic docks. No reason it shouldn't be since they have the design and production facility for them.

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[COdogman]

I'm only looking forward to this because it will hopefully clear space at the other chargers.

 

[mkg3]

It's totally dependent on how Tesla wants it to be implemented and is absolutely not a techincal requirement to make them work at the most basic level.

If Tesla wants the plug and charge experience like existing Teslas, and aren't doing that negotiation in the adapters themselves, then yes, the CCS vehicles that don't currently support plug and charge need some form of an update. Existing vehicles that support plug and charge may not actually need an update since the certificate verification is handled external to the vehicle.

It seems that you're hung up on the what is doable.

Not discussing the technical ability to do so; rather, what will they actually do to implement this. There are many things are technically doable, but not done for other reasons.

Sure, have it your way... We'll see soon enough with F and GM.

 

[Dark-Fx]

It seems that you're hung up on the what is doable.

Not discussing the technical ability to do so; rather, what will they actually do to implement this. There are many things are technically doable, but not done for other reasons.

Sure, have it your way... We'll see soon enough with F and GM.

It seems you missed your statement about "It's not just up to Tesla" that I had quoted. Tesla is the one making the decisions with regard to the implementation they are requiring of other manufacturers. So yes, it IS up to Tesla.

They could be doing both kinds of implementations. Allowing anyone with an adapter to initiate a charge through the Tesla app, and allowing approved manufacturers access via plug and charge. But as far as I know, they have no intention of letting anyone with an adapter access if their vehicle is not one from an approved manufacturer. Two companies claim their adapters are compatible but it doesn't matter if Tesla doesn't let you use them.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Why can’t we have Bolts and Mach Es using these chargers? I certainly hope it’s not an entitlement thing.

No entitlement here. Slower charging vehicles charging to 100% ruins the charging experience for everyone else. Yes, EA gives some free charging away. I actually spoke to some of their customer experience and product folks recently. They claim they aren't giving away unlimited charging anymore but EA needs to do more to improve the charging experience.

Congestion fees, idle fees, etc should be charged when the charger is busy even if those folks have free charging.

Tesla does need to prepare for this type of scenario. Less likely due to Tesla not offering OEMs free charging yes but still could happen. Folks charging need to be incentivized to charge and move along as quickly as possible especially when their vehicles charge slow and the chargers are busy.

If EA wants to offer free charging do it as account credit. That way if folks are clogging up chargers they will burn through the credit faster. Sorry but I have experience this so much it really gets under my skin. Its the perfect example of very poor planning and execution. Exacerbated by the lack of maintaining the stations.

A non issue just 2-3 years ago when not many folks had EVs. Now that adoption is accelerating charging operators need to adjust and adpat.

 

[rhumbliner]

I wouldn't put any of this on Rivian if it gets delayed.

I would.

I’m pretty sure Tesla has nothing to do with my power tonneau cover being delayed again and again and don’t get me started on a 3 month wait for a new windshield.

 

[R1Thor]

I would.

I’m pretty sure Tesla has nothing to do with my power tonneau cover being delayed again and again and don’t get me started on a 3 month wait for a new windshield.

You think both of those things are related, how exactly?

It's for sure not Rivian sitting in the corner with a gotcha.

The Engineering team in charge of the Tonneaus (and the Tonneau Product team overall, that includes logistics, procurement, etc) is NOT the same as the team that's going to be deploying NACS adapters and any type of software configuration /updates needed (if any) for compatibility.

Everyone wants to go on about things like the tonneau cover, but has ZERO clue how an Manufacturing Engineering operation actually functions.

 

[drichan]

I read somewhere but now I can’t find it that the Tesla would release access in phases based on their contract order.

meaning Ford would be first then GM then Rivian down the line. When Tesla opens to Ford will be a good indication of when how long it will take them to enable this for Rivian. It’s completely in Tesla court.

On the adapter side I don’t know if Rivian will be selling them, or giving them away or if we can buy 3rdParty directly. They haven’t clarified that yet.

 

[vandy1981]

No entitlement here. Slower charging vehicles charging to 100% ruins the charging experience for everyone else. Yes, EA gives some free charging away. I actually spoke to some of their customer experience and product folks recently. They claim they aren't giving away unlimited charging anymore but EA needs to do more to improve the charging experience.

Congestion fees, idle fees, etc should be charged when the charger is busy even if those folks have free charging.

Tesla does need to prepare for this type of scenario. Less likely due to Tesla not offering OEMs free charging yes but still could happen. Folks charging need to be incentivized to charge and move along as quickly as possible especially when their vehicles charge slow and the chargers are busy.

If EA wants to offer free charging do it as account credit. That way if folks are clogging up chargers they will burn through the credit faster. Sorry but I have experience this so much it really gets under my skin. Its the perfect example of very poor planning and execution. Exacerbated by the lack of maintaining the stations.

A non issue just 2-3 years ago when not many folks had EVs. Now that adoption is accelerating charging operators need to adjust and adpat.

Tesla will sometimes charge more per kwh above a certain SOC threshold in periods of high congestion. I suspect they will also use this for non Tesla vehicles.

 

[rhumbliner]

Everyone wants to go on about things like the tonneau cover, but has ZERO clue how an Manufacturing Engineering operation actually functions.

So you’re saying that back in Oct when I received the email promising an install date by the end of the month that Rivian hadn’t ironed out the Engineering/Manufacturing operation yet? I’d say it’s Rivian who hasn’t figured it out.

As for my windshield, my SC originally promised me replacement glass in 1 month, then 3, then “whenever we can get glass from the factory”.

We don’t need a degree in Mechanical Engineering to know that you don’t start promising product delivery when the product hasn’t been finalized.

Perhaps I wouldn’t be as frustrated if I could just get a straight answer.

 

[ThisIsMyHandle]

I live in a relatively spread out area in upstate NY and we have 3 8-12 bay Superchargers all with magic docks. I assume they are past 50%

 

[RivianPioneer]

I would.

I’m pretty sure Tesla has nothing to do with my power tonneau cover being delayed again and again and don’t get me started on a 3 month wait for a new windshield.

Clearly, you're bitter about your Tonneau cover and these other repair issues with Rivian (and I don't blame you at all), but that is apples compared to oranges. All of the heavy lifting to make this work will be on Tesla, and unlike those covers, which impact a relatively small group of people, Rivian will move mountains to get their vehicles on the Tesla network, I have no doubt, because the impact on their sales once they open up that charging network to their cars will be profound.

 

[R1Thor]

So you’re saying that back in Oct when I received the email promising an install date by the end of the month that Rivian hadn’t ironed out the Engineering/Manufacturing operation yet? I’d say it’s Rivian who hasn’t figured it out.

I'm not saying anything (For fact). I have zero inside information. But there are 100 variables you're forgetting. You're stuck in a very myopic way of thinking "If A then B" "If Rivian cannot do this one thing I really want them to do, they can't do anything else that meet my expectations"

As a VERY quick point, it could be that Rivian worked out ALL of the bugs, but the manufacturer that PROMISED they could deliver--their vendor stopped production on a critical component, so now they're backlogged by months. OR, maybe a component they thought was going to work perfectly came in at tolerance on quite a few of their tests, but in production, manufacturability isn't as repeatable. Then they have to go back to the drawing board and start that entire Design Process over, including validation testing.

As for my windshield, my SC originally promised me replacement glass in 1 month, then 3, then “whenever we can get glass from the factory”.

Again, you're making huge assumptions there. Rivian themselves didn't make that promise, and that's at the service center level. In what world does the service center level impact development of releasing NACS?

We don’t need a degree in Mechanical Engineering to know that you don’t start promising product delivery when the product hasn’t been finalized.

Perhaps I wouldn’t be as frustrated if I could just get a straight answer.

You absolutely DON'T need a degree in Mechanical engineering, but whatever your degree is in doesn't give you any more information. My point is simply this: making conjecture BASED ON something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT is a false dichotomy.

I hear you on the 'straight answer' thing. I prefer communication above all else. There's something about the way the world works with larger companies--they're overly cautious. And maybe they need to be. You don't need my dissertation on why I think that is or what my experience has been working for Fortune 100 companies.

But the overarching message here is: it's way more complicated than you're giving it credit for, and you cannot make assumptions based on anything that you don't know for certain. Period. That's just like...the law of the universe.

 

[emoore]

I read somewhere but now I can’t find it that the Tesla would release access in phases based on their contract order.

meaning Ford would be first then GM then Rivian down the line. When Tesla opens to Ford will be a good indication of when how long it will take them to enable this for Rivian. It’s completely in Tesla court.

On the adapter side I don’t know if Rivian will be selling them, or giving them away or if we can buy 3rdParty directly. They haven’t clarified that yet.

Yes Rivian has stated they will provide adapters to current truck holders as well as making extras available for purchase in the gear shop.

 

[emoore]

I live in a relatively spread out area in upstate NY and we have 3 8-12 bay Superchargers all with magic docks. I assume they are past 50%

past 50% of what? usage for those chargers?

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