GM, Ford Shares Slide as $80 Billion Union Risk Hits Confidence

[kurtlikevonnegut]

Their demands are likely unjustified but don‘t forget all the golden parachutes and ridiculous pay multiplier poor performing execs earn. Most corporate structures are really bad from both sides.

I'm not going to say that every executive is worth the amount that they are paid or that they are always the most qualified person for the job, but let's not create a false equivalency between an automotive executive who routinely makes decisions affecting millions of dollars worth of business with the person who clips the wiring harness to the chassis of the car as it rolls by.

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[strykerwsu]

I'm not going to say that every executive is worth the amount that they are paid or that they are always the most qualified person for the job, but let's not create a false equivalency between an automotive executive who routinely makes decisions affecting millions of dollars worth of business with the person who clips the wiring harness to the chassis of the car as it rolls by.

In the end both will be replaced by AI /Robotics so both will lose. However until that day both are needed at competent levels. Labor is the biggest current issue for most corporations.

 

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

CEO's are getting paid $20M+. They can afford it.

Wish I could ask for a 46% raise from my job, though. Maybe then I could afford to buy more Rivian stock.

 

[MDH]

I believe GM pays about $55/hr. Ford is $64/hr. Tesla is $50-$55/hr. I assume Rivian is somewhere near Tesla. If the union can obtain $80, $90 or $120 per hour plus all the other demands, how can the companies compete manufacturing EVs they already lose tens of thousands on each vehicle produced?

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I believe GM pays about $55/hr. Ford is $64/hr. Tesla is $50-$55/hr. I assume Rivian is somewhere near Tesla. If the union can obtain $80, $90 or $120 per hour plus all the other demands, how can the companies compete manufacturing EVs they already lose tens of thousands on each vehicle produced?

IDK where these people get the balls to ask for 80-90 dollars an hour to assemble cars. That simply isn't worth that much money. Since it's not worth that much money giving the workers that amount all but guarantees these companies will go out of business.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

This is why Boeing opened a plant in South Carolina. Maybe it is also why Rivian choose Georgia, both are right-to-work states.

I guess they are setting the bar high with 46% raise request.

That plant was unionized in 2018.

IDK where these people get the balls to ask for 80-90 dollars an hour to assemble cars. That simply isn't worth that much money. Since it's not worth that much money giving the workers that amount all but guarantees these companies will go out of business.

Why do people too often begrudge others getting paid? Go do that work for a few days and see how hard and dangerous it can be.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

That plant was unionized in 2018.




Why do people too often begrudge others getting paid? Go do that work for a few days and see how hard and dangerous it can be.

I started my career in an apprenticeship in the mechanical trades. Ive spent weeks at a time jackhammering floors and digging and crawling through ceilings. Smelled things that would make a goat puke. All for much less than 80 dollars an hour. Paying that much for screwing on car parts is asinine.

 

[BigE]

Ford is $145 Billion in debt and just asked Uncle Sam for a loan of $9.2B, GM is $120B in debt after bankruptcy just 14 years ago. Tesla has $5.8B of debt and could pay it off tomorrow. When you have opposing side fighting like Ford & GM do, instead of what’s best for the company, neither will survive for long. Sad to see the downfall of what were 2 great American Companies.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Ford is $145 Billion in debt and just asked Uncle Sam for a loan of $9.2B, GM is $120B in debt after bankruptcy just 14 years ago. Tesla has $5.8B of debt and could pay it off tomorrow. When you have opposing side fighting like Ford & GM do, instead of what’s best for the company, neither will survive for long. Sad to see the downfall of what were 2 great American Companies.

I'm not. They stopped becoming great American companies years ago. They exported most of their manufacturing overseas, cheapened up all their processes and refused to innovate all to line their pockets by being the only game in town and collusion with big oil. They screwed their own futures for short term profit and this is what they get.

 

[DuoRivians]

I’m grateful that Rivian is young enough and their stock is cheap enough that all workers can be incentivized with stock, and have everyone aligned on the same page to increase the company’s value. And none of this value is shared with stealerships.

 

[SANZC02]

Ford is $145 Billion in debt and just asked Uncle Sam for a loan of $9.2B, GM is $120B in debt after bankruptcy just 14 years ago. Tesla has $5.8B of debt and could pay it off tomorrow. When you have opposing side fighting like Ford & GM do, instead of what’s best for the company, neither will survive for long. Sad to see the downfall of what were 2 great American Companies.

I would also venture to say those execs making millions should be performance based and if they are not meeting debt reduction and financial targets they should not be making millions. Give them 500k a year and everything else is a real target and not lollipop targets.

 

[DuoRivians]

I'm not. They stopped becoming great American companies years ago. They exported most of their manufacturing overseas, cheapened up all their processes and refused to innovate all to line their pockets by being the only game in town and collusion with big oil. They screwed their own futures for short term profit and this is what they get.

This. They thought they could create shareholder value via financial engineering and taking on more debt to lower their cost of capital. Ultimately, neither GM nor Ford are able to truly turn the corner on innovation to make the cheap capital worthwhile.

Now, they’re stuck holding a terrible balance sheet and competing interests within their org structure

 

[Donald Stanfield]

This. They thought they could create shareholder via financial engineering and taking on more debt to lower their cost of capital. Ultimately, neither GM nor Ford are able to truly turn the corner on innovation to make the cheap capital worthwhile.

Now, they’re stuck holding a terrible balance and competing interests within their org structure

Perfect synopsis. Instead of creating shareholder value by producing superior products they went with tricky accounting which generated short term gain but signed the death warrant and that date is quickly coming due.

 

[Jordman]

This seems like a really unreasonable demand. The unions, just like with UPS, are pricing themselves out of the market. If the costs are too high then your companies are going to close simple as that. The big automakers aren't going to be able to weather these costs.

It seems that unions provide a benefit to the workers and society in general, but aren't autoworkers really well paid already?

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