Frightening EV Credits

[flabyboy]

People are worried about some vehicle price cap limits and salary cap limits the have been floated as possibilities. I'd like to qualify but feel silly writing a letter to some politician or other reading along the lines of "Please keep tax credit for vehicles costing up to (insert price 1 dollar above my R1s spec here) for customers making less than (insert my annual salary plus one dollar here)." Self serving and likely to be ignored anyway.

I think if I wrote them I would ask why they are giving an advantage to one business over another? The answer is obvious, but it’s good to call them out on their BS

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[flabyboy]

This is such bs. The income cap is a joke.
Who do they think can afford these expensive EVs??
So in the end, Rivian will be lacking tax credit for those of us who want more than a base truck, has a poor charging infrastructure, early production issues… this is great

Not everyone on here who is buying a 70k truck makes that kind of scratch. Hell I live in a small town where people in $150k homes have a 60k truck. This credit would help people like me who are definitely right on the fence at being able to afford this

 

[AxelR]

Not everyone on here who is buying a 70k truck makes that kind of scratch. Hell I live in a small town where people in $150k homes have a 60k truck. This credit would help people like me who are definitely right on the fence at being able to afford this

Careful, we might all move to Minnesota and make it the new California (forget Texas).
That being said, tax credit should be helping everybody… even the people who pay all the taxes to make these tax credits possible in the first place.

 

[Scoiatael]

I don't really care for that provision either and I get it that you're in a pretty expensive part of the country. But I don't think you'll get much sympathy if you make over $400K AGI ($800K AGI joint filer).

Hell, I don't think I'd get much sympathy. I'd just have to suck it up.

I was mad at the 150k joint AGI, but I'm fine that its raised now. Still wish they would bump up the max truck price though.

 

[Scott]

Not everyone on here who is buying a 70k truck makes that kind of scratch. Hell I live in a small town where people in $150k homes have a 60k truck. This credit would help people like me who are definitely right on the fence at being able to afford this

There is a difference between people doing that, and that being a financial move the government should incent with taxpayer dollars.

 

[Scoiatael]

Over the rumored 800K per year joint income cap? Excuse me while I go look for the world's smallest violin.

The original 150k joint income cap, if I was making 800k I wouldn't complain

 

[yizzung]

There are multiple threads on this topic, making it a little hard to follow but, if the goal is to get electric vehicles on the road, then heavily subsidising low-volume, luxury, off-road trucks that will cost close to $100K out the door is not the way to get there quickly.

I like free money as much as anybody but I'd much rather see a lower income individual choose to buy a $35K electric sedan with subsidies over a nearly identical $25K ICE sedan. (I think Hyundai makes both an ICE and electric in the same model and the cost differential is roughly $10K?)

If the incentives get thousands more e-Hyundais on the road, I'll be happy. That's where the volume is going to come from. The very basic electric Ford F-150s would also be a good candidate for higher incentives.

 

[R_1_T]

This is such bs. The income cap is a joke.
Who do they think can afford these expensive EVs??
So in the end, Rivian will be lacking tax credit for those of us who want more than a base truck, has a poor charging infrastructure, early production issues… this is great

If it was up to me there would be no incentives/subsidies for any specific technology. The choice to purchase a Rivan is YOURS, and the government should have no place in managing the risk associated with that choice. Wait if you want to reduce the risk.

 

[AdamsFan1983]

There are multiple threads on this topic, making it a little hard to follow but, if the goal is to get electric vehicles on the road, then heavily subsidising low-volume, luxury, off-road trucks that will cost close to $100K out the door is not the way to get there quickly.

I like free money as much as anybody but I'd much rather see a lower income individual choose to buy a $35K electric sedan with subsidies over a nearly identical $25K ICE sedan. (I think Hyundai makes both an ICE and electric in the same model and the cost differential is roughly $10K?)

If the incentives get thousands more e-Hyundais on the road, I'll be happy. That's where the volume is going to come from. The very basic electric Ford F-150s would also be a good candidate for higher incentives.

Perhaps the incentives (to start) are less about incentivizing consumers to purchase these vehicles, and more about incentivizing manufacturers to build them. That’s how I’ve always viewed them. It’s no secret legacy auto has dragged its feet on this for years.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

I was mad at the 150k joint AGI, but I'm fine that its raised now. Still will they would bump up the max truck price though.

Ahh, gotcha. I'd be SOL as well if it were that low.

 

[electruck]

If it was up to me there would be no incentives/subsidies for any specific technology. The choice to purchase a Rivan is YOURS, and the government should have no place in managing the risk associated with that choice. Wait if you want to reduce the risk.

The goverment isn't trying to reduce individual risk. What they're trying to do is motivate people so that the process of transitioning from ICE to BEV only takes 30-50 years instead of 100-150 years or more. The longer it takes to complete that transition, the more we're damaging the planet in ways that are very hard to reverse. While not true of everyone, people are inherently selfish and left to their own devices will do what is in their own best interest without consideration of the greater good. By motivating early adopters, the government is trying to help EV manufacturing reach critical mass so that economies of scale start to drive prices down for everyone making the technology more readily attainable ultimately eliminating the need for subsidies.

That said, I do realize that "politics" rarely serves the greater good... but that's a different discussion.

 

[McMoo]

According to this, MSRP is set at 74k for pickup and SUV.

Its not. I read the bill and it’s $69,000 for SUV.

 

[R_1_T]

The goverment isn't trying to reduce individual risk. What they're trying to do is motivate people so that the process of transitioning from ICE to BEV only takes 30-50 years instead of 100-150 years or more. The longer it takes to complete that transition, the more we're damaging the planet in ways that are very hard to reverse. While not true of everyone, people are inherently selfish and left to their own devices will do what is in their own best interest without consideration of the greater good. By motivating early adopters, the government is trying to help EV manufacturing reach critical mass so that economies of scale start to drive prices down for everyone making the technology more readily attainable ultimately eliminating the need for subsidies.

That said, I do realize that "politics" rarely serves the greater good... but that's a different discussion.

OK, but the post I was replying to was somebody whining about early production issues and inability to option a vehicle up as desired and keep the incentive due to the price limit. The individual selects these things, so they need to be will to accept the costs associated with being an early adopter or configuring the vehicle in a specific way.

In other words, cry me a river...

 

[Riv240]

Its not. I read the bill and it’s $69,000 for SUV.

I do hope that Rivian does something regarding R1S, so it'll make the cut off. (People get to buy the 'base' car, and add anything else after... not sure how it works with paint, lol)

Somewhere in the verbiage, looks like this new bill replaces the old one (where any Rivian makes any cutoff, just the 200k units produced where the 7.5k tax credit tapers off quarterly).

 

[yizzung]

Perhaps the incentives (to start) are less about incentivizing consumers to purchase these vehicles, and more about incentivizing manufacturers to build them. That’s how I’ve always viewed them. It’s no secret legacy auto has dragged its feet on this for years.

Maybe but then it would just be easier to pay manufacturers directly (or to tax them for every ICE they build).

That wouldn’t make a ton of sense though because if the car is a dog and nobody wants it, the govt is paying manufacturers to build garbage…

The manufacturers obviously benefit from the consumer incentives but they still have to build marketable cars.

If we want to get to 50% EV by 2030, need a more Norway-like approach. These little $5-10K incentives aren’t moving the needle fast enough. Sadly, none of those moves (no sales tax on EVs, free tolls, free parking, etc) are politically viable here. Oh and oil is dirt cheap.

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