Sponsored

Do I really need the Max Pack?

Status
Not open for further replies.

SANZC02

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Threads
29
Messages
5,258
Reaction score
8,859
Location
California
Vehicles
Tesla Model S, LE - R1S
Occupation
Retired
Me too. 135 kWh would run my house for the day.
My usage is pretty consistent, benefits living near the cost in SoCal, rarely need AC, never need heat. I've replaced most of my lights with LEDs. Helps that it is not a large house at 1900sq ft.

Rivian R1T R1S Do I really need the Max Pack? 1624476675631


I am adding solar in preparation for the Rivian. The Tesla has free super charging so I rarely charge that at home.
Sponsored

 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Threads
9
Messages
2,883
Reaction score
2,317
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla XLR+2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, R1T
Occupation
EE Retired
Out of the 135 or so I use per day the lions share goes to heating in the winter and A/C in the summer.You are lucky and you know that. Only 5.3 go to the Tesla. I too have free charging but certainly charging at home is much more convenient, phantom drain gets covered as it occurs, the Tesla warnings against using SCs unless it is necessary scare me and finally that the electricity is (at least at this time of the year) free means the only time I ever Supercharge is on road trips.
 

BigE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Eric
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
40
Messages
770
Reaction score
1,327
Location
North Carolina
Vehicles
Rivian R1T, Honda S2000
Me too. 135 kWh would run my house for the day.
My wife and I built a new house a couple of years ago and finally built what I wanted, super energy efficient, super-strong as we're in hurricane country. I took some of the learnings from German's Passivhaus, Net Zero, etc. Over most of last year, I worked with my small town's alderman to change an ordinance on solar (it was super unfavorable to putting solar on your home) and then this spring added panels so we should now be "Net Zero" as far as electricity which is our major energy supply. All this being said, I would estimate, I have one of the top 5% most efficient homes in the USA and we still use somewhere between 30-50 kW/day.
 

BigE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Eric
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
40
Messages
770
Reaction score
1,327
Location
North Carolina
Vehicles
Rivian R1T, Honda S2000
My usage is pretty consistent, benefits living near the cost in SoCal, rarely need AC, never need heat. I've replaced most of my lights with LEDs. Helps that it is not a large house at 1900sq ft.

1624476675631.png


I am adding solar in preparation for the Rivian. The Tesla has free super charging so I rarely charge that at home.
Wow, that is awesome! We built a 2,700 sq. ft but since we are in Hurricane country, we built our house "encapsulated" thus we heat/cool the entire envelope, including the attic space. This puts us on par with a 4,000 sq. ft. house. I put 9.4 kW's of panels on, so on an annual basis, we should be a Net-zero. We're only 3 billing cycles into solar, but so far it's great.
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Threads
9
Messages
2,883
Reaction score
2,317
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla XLR+2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, R1T
Occupation
EE Retired
Yes, when the sun shines it's fantastic. In the summer we produce about 25% more than we use. In the winter I'm estimating we will be short 70% of what we use. Not so great.
 
Last edited:

Sponsored

JeremyMKE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jeremy
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Threads
30
Messages
473
Reaction score
1,237
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Vehicles
Toyota Sienna, 2001 Yamaha Vino, 2022 Rivian R1T
Occupation
Riviot
Yes, when the sun shines it's fantastic. In the summer we produce about 25% more than we use. In the winter I'm estimatim we will be short 70% of what we use. Not so great.

Same in Wisconsin, makes the ROI rough....
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Threads
9
Messages
2,883
Reaction score
2,317
Location
Virginia/Quebec
Vehicles
Tesla XLR+2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, R1T
Occupation
EE Retired
The solution is to put up more panels in places that are less than ideal so the sytem effectively "tracks" the sun. This solves the problem to some extent but destroys the ROI.
 

Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Threads
13
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
2,767
Location
Park City, UT / Kemmerer, WY
Vehicles
2015 Tesla S 85D, 2019 4Runner TRD Offroad, R1T
I’ve got gas heat and hot water, and don’t really use my AC much. I’ve averaged 230kW per month over the past year. That’s about 7.5kW per day. ?

Rivian R1T R1S Do I really need the Max Pack? 1624505814820
 

GearsGrindn

New Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
4
Reaction score
4
Location
Orlando, FL USA
Vehicles
2019 Ford Fusion Energi
Occupation
Aerospace Engineer
I’ve been struggling to decide whether a 300+ mile range is enough, or if I really need to spend the extra $10k on the Max Pack. I started my EV journey with a VW e-Golf that had a 125 mile range. Then I recently bought a Chevy Bolt that over doubled that range to 259 miles. After a month in the Bolt, I’m finding that I haven’t found any driving situation leaving me wanting more range.
But part of me says the 400+ mile range of the Max Pack will help “future proof” the R1T I have a deposit on. As the battery degrades over time, it would still have enough range to do anything I may ask of it. My goal is to have the R1T as my forever vehicle. If I get the 300 mi pack, perhaps the cost of replacement will be inexpensive enough down the road that spending an extra $10k now doesn’t make sense.
Any thoughts from the collective to help with my decision?
I live in Central Florida (HVAC 100% of the time, plus frequent rain) and will plan to purchase the max pack. I do intend to keep the vehicle for a very long time. That said, I am concerned about resale value. If we consider improved power density batteries that emerge after the purchase, the "Large" trucks will have lower value. That said, I also assume there will be no OTA updates that "unlock" additional range. I don't think Rivian (or any other OEM) switches battery chemistry away from one that is as well understood as the lithium-ion. Lucid's battery sounds nice, but how long before such tech ends up in the hands of an EV buyer, affordably? Considering that a Honda 220V 50A inverter generator costs upward of $5K, an additional $10K for additional 100 miles range is not unreasonable. I don't think demand materializes for much range beyond 400 miles and realistically the "Large" pack will accommodate the 85th percentile driver (on-road application). I suspect we will see tailgaters continuing to use their portable gen-sets at campgrounds with these trucks. I don't think the max pack is strictly necessary for on-road applications, but I like to have margin and if I should ever decide to sell it, a pre-owned buyer will definitely pay more for the max-pack version.
 

Dbeglor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
511
Reaction score
828
Location
TX
Vehicles
Yes
I don't think the max pack is strictly necessary for on-road applications, but I like to have margin and if I should ever decide to sell it, a pre-owned buyer will definitely pay more for the max-pack version.
That's actually the key variable. What you pay upfront isn't the actual cost. The true cost of any vehicle (or component thereof) is the added interest accrued (if financed, or foregone if all cash), the operating costs and the depreciation.

So, for the sake of argument let's say you pay cash and the operating cost is the same between the two (reasonable assumption). The only thing left is the depreciation, and if the market pays the same dollar per mile of range in EV's at the time you sell as they do now, then theoretically the Max pack is nearly free. It really just costs the interest paid/foregone, which is $780 if you finance for 60mos at 3%.

For example, if the $75k Large pack is worth half at resale ($37.5k), then the Max Pack in theory should be worth $47.5k, and they both ended up costing the same. Using a real world example at that price point, the Model 3 LR is $8k more for 91 additional miles, or about $88/mi. That would mean nearly $9k in value for 100mi of additional range in today's market.
 

Sponsored

skyote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Threads
55
Messages
2,725
Reaction score
5,647
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
Jeeps, 2500HD Duramax, R1S Preorder (Dec 2018)
I love the analytical approach of @Dbeglor above, but inflation was left out. ;)

However, I look at this a bit differently. If this is a 5+ year vehicle for you, the Large Pack will be fine for most people. You have to think about how little that additional range will be used, and most importantly, how much DCFC infrastructure will expand in that timeframe.

My prediction is that DCFC will become prolific enough for range to be a non-issue in the not so distant future.
 

SeaGeo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brice
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Threads
47
Messages
5,235
Reaction score
9,677
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
Xc60 T8
Occupation
Engineer
That's actually the key variable. What you pay upfront isn't the actual cost. The true cost of any vehicle (or component thereof) is the added interest accrued (if financed, or foregone if all cash), the operating costs and the depreciation.

So, for the sake of argument let's say you pay cash and the operating cost is the same between the two (reasonable assumption). The only thing left is the depreciation, and if the market pays the same dollar per mile of range in EV's at the time you sell as they do now, then theoretically the Max pack is nearly free. It really just costs the interest paid/foregone, which is $780 if you finance for 60mos at 3%.

For example, if the $75k Large pack is worth half at resale ($37.5k), then the Max Pack in theory should be worth $47.5k, and they both ended up costing the same. Using a real world example at that price point, the Model 3 LR is $8k more for 91 additional miles, or about $88/mi. That would mean nearly $9k in value for 100mi of additional range in today's market.
There's also (on average) an opportunity cost of not sticking that monthly payment that goes towards financing the 10k into an appreciating investment.

starting to nitpick here a bit though.
 

Dbeglor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
511
Reaction score
828
Location
TX
Vehicles
Yes
I love the analytical approach of @Dbeglor above, but inflation was left out. ;)

However, I look at this a bit differently. If this is a 5+ year vehicle for you, the Large Pack will be fine for most people. You have to think about how little that additional range will be used, and most importantly, how much DCFC infrastructure will expand in that timeframe.

My prediction is that DCFC will become prolific enough for range to be a non-issue in the not so distant future.
Oh I agree, this question is always an endless debate because it's like asking blue or red. In central TX, I see no reason for the longer range, because we're so isolated that you never really drive more than 200mi and we don't have cold to worry about (this year aside....). Whereas, I could definitely see wanting/needing 400mi if I lived in other parts of the country. I've never needed more than 200mi of range over the past 18 months, so the 300 is a 50% increase on that.
 

Dbeglor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
511
Reaction score
828
Location
TX
Vehicles
Yes
There's also (on average) an opportunity cost of not sticking that monthly payment that goes towards financing the 10k into an appreciating investment.

starting to nitpick here a bit though.
Yep, that's what I meant by the interest forgone if paying all cash. So, either you finance and pay $780, or you pay all cash and give up $780 if you could have earned 3% (can't even do that in a no/low risk investment).
 

SeaGeo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brice
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Threads
47
Messages
5,235
Reaction score
9,677
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
Xc60 T8
Occupation
Engineer
Yep, that's what I meant by the interest forgone if paying all cash. So, either you finance and pay $780, or you pay all cash and give up $780 if you could have earned 3% (can't even do that in a no/low risk investment).
I mean the 780 that you pay when financed.
Sponsored

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
 




Top