Do I really need the Max Pack?

BoltEVowner

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Yes, that’s my learning from researching drives. With the 135 pack, we would be close to using 90%+ between chargers, so slower refill vs the 180 pack. So as of now I’m sticking with the 180.
One of the big factors in the decision for me is wanting the $7500 tax credit for 2021 tax return. If Rivian cannot deliver my R1T LE with 300+ mile pack before 1-1-22, won't count for 2021 taxes, and wondering what the projected delivery would be if I opted to forego the LE and change to the 400+ mile pack? With 5-17-19 pre-order, will just have to wait until my Guide contact, guessing August or September. Unless someone else has asked this question that has already spoken to their Guide, would be nice to hear their response, likely latter 2022 or 2023 the way things are going so far?





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Dlcromwell

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This is going to be a popular thread. There are likely many of us flip flopping around on battery size.

Currently, I have the max battery selected. But, that could change. The large significantly cuts the cost of the vehicle and is slightly more efficient. If there are plenty of chargers, why bother dragging around the extra weight?

In BC, we have plenty of chargers in the southern part of the province. Not so much in the north. And, of course, a map covered in dots representing chargers can be misleading. Many of those dots are level two chargers.

Whenever I have this debate with myself, I always end up looking at one trip to Kyuquat on the west coast of Vancouver Island. Everything starts off great in Vancouver and up the east coast of Vancouver Island. At Campbell River, about halfway up the island, there is a DCFC where I could charge the battery to the top.

Okay, this is where the fun begins. Assuming the large battery, I leave Campbell River with 480 km of range (probably less). I drive 129 km to a small community called Woss, where there is a level two charger. Here, I leave the paved road and drive a logging road 100 km to Kyuquat. The campground here does not have plug-ins for RV's. I wouldn't count on getting any charge unless in an emergency. So, that's a 200 km round trip to get back to Woss, and then 129 km back to Campbell River.

I won't bore you with the math, but it's obvious that unless I like a lot of stress, charging at Woss is a necessity for this trip. Inconvenience? Total pain in the rear? That depends on how much the logging road affects my battery level. If the rough road sucks the battery down quite a bit, I could end up having to sit at Woss for a long time.

And, that is why I selected the max battery. And, why it has not yet been changed to large. I see too many trips where having the large battery would leave me twiddling my thumbs at a level two charger, or, worse, not able to go where I want to go.
It looks like you need to take a generator with you and charge the R1T while you are camping. A 12Kw gas/propane generator is only $1,300 USD and at only 72dB(A) would lull you to sleep very nicely. For the 6-8 camping trips a year it is more economical than a $10,000 MAX pack. JMHOP
 

ravian

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What if the 300+ mile turns out to be 320 miles? What if it is 330 miles? And true miles like Porsche Taycan miles and not Tesla miles.
 

CommodoreAmiga

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What if the 300+ mile turns out to be 320 miles? What if it is 330 miles? And true miles like Porsche Taycan miles and not Tesla miles.
If they can get me to 330 miles of TRUE highway miles in summer/winter.... meaning I can go 75mph and use the A/C and heater (I usually keep the thermostat around 65 degrees) then I'll be okay with that.

But it seems unlikely, based on how other EVs perform, that this will be the case.
 
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If they can get me to 330 miles of TRUE highway miles in summer/winter.... meaning I can go 75mph and use the A/C and heater (I usually keep the thermostat around 65 degrees) then I'll be okay with that.

But it seems unlikely, based on how other EVs perform, that this will be the case.
Do you know of any EV whose EPA estimated range is attained while meeting that criteria?
 

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Do you know of any EV whose EPA estimated range is attained while meeting that criteria?
The only EVs I've really spent any time looking at were the Tesla models (definitely don't meet EPA estimates in the real world), the BMW i3, and the Porsche Taycan. The Porsche is probably the first that comes close.
 

ajdelange

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The only EVs I've really spent any time looking at were the Tesla models (definitely don't meet EPA estimates in the real world),
Yes actually they do if you understand what an EPA estimate really is. What this means is that if you understand what the EPA test suite measures and have even a rough idea as to how to adjust for your driving conditions relative to the EPA test conditions you can get a pretty good estimate of how your car will perform. Any knowledgeable EV drive knows better than to expect EPA rated performance at 75 mph in cold weather (unless he has a 20 mph tailwind). In fact the Tesla estimates are more "accurate" (in quotes because a benchmark can't be accurate) than most of the other manufacturers because they include the other 3 tests that most don't do.

Wonder if Rivian will do the complete set?
 

kylealden

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If they can get me to 330 miles of TRUE highway miles in summer/winter.... meaning I can go 75mph and use the A/C and heater (I usually keep the thermostat around 65 degrees) then I'll be okay with that.

But it seems unlikely, based on how other EVs perform, that this will be the case.
If anything I'd expect the R1T to see more range loss at 75 mph than most competition; trucks are not particularly aerodynamic and drag starts to dramatically increase over 60mph.

For my part, I'm willing to slow to 65 to get an extra 30% range if I need it. It's easy enough to tuck in behind a tractor-trailer with TACC, especially if it saves you $10k 🙂
 

CommodoreAmiga

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If anything I'd expect the R1T to see more range loss at 75 mph than most competition; trucks are not particularly aerodynamic and drag starts to dramatically increase over 60mph.

For my part, I'm willing to slow to 65 to get an extra 30% range if I need it. It's easy enough to tuck in behind a tractor-trailer with TACC, especially if it saves you $10k 🙂
In my area, if you tried going 65mph in anything but the right-most lane on most of the highways you'd get rear-ended, and the increase in insurance premiums and deductibles would negate any potential efficiency savings.

You could go with the semi-trucks, but then you'll be stuck at 45-55mph and I can only imagine the flat, grill-less face of the R1T would quickly become beat up from the rocks and debris those trucks tend to kick up.

Max battery pack is the better solution, for me, assuming the tax credits don't get screwed up.
 

ajdelange

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If anything I'd expect the R1T to see more range loss at 75 mph than most competition; trucks are not particularly aerodynamic and drag starts to dramatically increase over 60mph.
We (or I) don't know anything about the R1T but Tesla has indicated the CT will have Cd = 0.3 as compared to the X's 0.24. That means the CT will exhibit 25% more drag per square meter of frontal are at any speed than the X will. Since that's appreciably more than the X drag will emerge as the dominant retarding force (over rolling resistance and slip) at a lower speed with the CT, and presumably the R1T, than it does in the X. So yes, I think you are right in this.

FWIW in my last 10 road trip segments where peak speeds in the high 70's and low 80's were reached but average speeds were in the 60's I averaged 295.1 Wh/mi with an SD of 33.4 Wh/mi. The EPA rated consumption is 282 Wh/mi.

For my part, I'm willing to slow to 65 to get an extra 30% range if I need it. It's easy enough to tuck in behind a tractor-trailer with TACC, especially if it saves you $10k 🙂
Sometimes you can take action and sometimes you can't. I guess you can always slow down but if you get hit with rain or snow or a headwind you are going to get clobbered. And sometimes conditions are favorable. Out of those 10 legs I did as poorly as 383 (rain) and as well as 262. What the extra battery is there for is those days when you get 383.
 

ajdelange

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Here’s an article that explains how the EPA arrives at their range estimates.....

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/18/how-does-epa-calculate-electric-car-range/
That's not the whole story by a long shot. There are three additional tests. There is a slim EE guy who does excellent videos on BEV. There is so much BS out there but this guy is good. He has done one on how EPA testing is actually done that gets pretty deep into the details. Unfortunately I can't find it but here's the URL for one of his others so at least you will know about whom I am talking:
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=+E...i=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKm-CtIaIRw
 
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Ray R

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That's not the whole story by a long shot. There are three additional tests. There is a slim EE guy who does excellent videos on BEV. There is so much BS out there but this guy is good. He has done one on how EPA testing is actually done that gets pretty deep into the details. Unfortunately I can't find it but here's the URL for one of his others so at least you will know about whom I am talking:
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=+EV+engineeering+youtube&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKm-CtIaIRw
So how do we differentiate the BS from fact? I tried to find something from the EPA directly, but all they seem to publish to the public is fluff and nothing that spells out exactly what and how they test.
I guess I could just send the EPA a letter and ask them.

Edit: Email sent.
 
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Cactus

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Charging time will be faster with max pack. Having owned a Model S P85 since Feb 2014, I have learned that it's best to get the largest battery one can afford.
 

Reed

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It looks like you need to take a generator with you and charge the R1T while you are camping. A 12Kw gas/propane generator is only $1,300 USD and at only 72dB(A) would lull you to sleep very nicely. For the 6-8 camping trips a year it is more economical than a $10,000 MAX pack. JMHOP
This is an interesting option to consider. There are trips up in northern BC and the Yukon where gas isn't easy to find, let alone electricity. I was reading about this place in northern BC that asks people to phone ahead and make an appointment if they want their tank filled. Yikes!

At one point, Rivian was also considering add on, portable batteries. I'd have to see the details of how that would work, and how much a pack would weigh. But, it might be an option that could avoid always having to drive around with a big battery on board.
 

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