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Do I really need the Max Pack?

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CommodoreAmiga

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I have a question for those claiming range is king. If true, why did you choose the Rivian over the 500+ mile range of the Cybertruck?
Because I choose the product that will actually exist rather than Mr. Musks drug-fueled fantasy land.

And I have eyes that work.
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ajdelange

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I'd like to obtain some of the drugs that fuel Mr. Musk's fantasies as so many of those fantasies have turned into very lucrative realities. Do you happen to know which ones they are?
 

ajdelange

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For those that plan a lot of towing, camping, and off-road trips, greater range is a lot more important than styling.
The big battery in the CT TriMotor is not there to give the CT 500 mile range. It is in there to support towing. But when you are not towing it is still there and as a consequence of its size the unburdened truck will go 500 miles. This is sort of frosting on the cake and great for Telsa's "marketing".
 

ajdelange

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I used ABR Planner. I plugged in 1.11 miles/kWh, so...
I think there is a nuance here that is often missed. All three flavors of the truck will consume about the same number of Wh/mi. When towing any differences will tend to be swamped by the trailer's requirement. You must, along the way, replace the same number of miles you took from the battery whichever model you drive and as the consumption per mile is essentially the same independent of battery size you must take on approximately the same number of kWh. It's obvious that if the battery is small it takes more stops than if it is large but what is not so obvious is that a larger battery is charged faster (at some multiple of C, its capacity) so that less time is required to load X kW into a large battery than a small one. This, of course, assumes that the available chargers have sufficient capacity
 
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Ray R

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Because there was no 500+ mile CT. At the time the Rivians were announced 400 miles was way out there. I was driving a Tesla X with 294 mi rating, The very thought of 400 mi was really exciting. Now, of course, 400 miles isn't that exciting. There are several vehicles offering 400 and even 500 mile range. This is why we were so disappointed when Rivian decided to release the 300 mile version first. I'm now driving a 351 EPA mile X. Why would I take a step back? As a driver I recognize the value of the extra range. Perhaps there is a message there for people who have not driven BEV who are trying to make the 300 or 400 mile version decision. When you drive the truck you will be glad you went for 400. I will note that I have seen one gent here who lists himself as a BEV owner who has rationalized his 300 mile choice.

So we'll have to change your question a bit to "If you claim range is king why do you keep your Rivian reservation given the 500+ range of the CT?" The obvious answer is that while I'll have to wait til next year for my Rivian I'll have to wait even longer for my CT. But I've come to love the Rivian, stadium lights and all, over the last two years and so intend to keep the order. If I find myself dependent on the longer range of the CT when it arrives (assuming I last that long) I'll sell the Rivian. That probably won't happen because I think 400 miles is sufficient. 350 miles is sufficient in the Tesla SC environment. The sufficient range depends in large measure on the charging infra structure. I would not be comfortable with 300 miles in the present CCS fast charging network. I am only marginally comfortable with 400. We hope this will improve but it is always listed as one of the major reason that people give for not wanting BEV.

When people who have expressed an interest in BEV are polled 24% say they are considering Tesla, 25% say they are considering Ford but only 14% list Rivian. We wonder if range/charging has something to do with this. Could be just that Tesla and Ford are household names but Rivian isn't.
I guess my point is that if one chose the Rivian over the CT because the CT is “butt ugly”, then range is not king. Or if one chose the Rivian because it was predicted to have the highest range at the time, or because the Rivian will be available sooner than the CT, then range is not king. If someone chose the Tesla P100D over the longer range version, and says “range is king”, should they be believed?
 

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I think there is a nuance here that is often missed. All three flavors of the truck will consume about the same number of Wh/mi. When towing any differences will tend to be swamped by the trailer's requirement. You must, along the way, replace the same number of miles you took from the battery whichever model you drive and as the consumption per mile is essentially the same independent of battery size you must take on approximately the same number of kWh. It's obvious that if the battery is small it takes more stops than if it is large but what is not so obvious is that a larger battery is charged faster (at some multiple of C, its capacity) so that less time is required to load X kW into a large battery than a small one. This, of course, assumes that the available chargers have sufficient capacity
I did not see before that the different Rivian batteries would charge at different speeds. I only had Bolt before and they only had one size battery offer and so no choices. Does Teslas and others with different sizes charge at different speeds?
 

ajdelange

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A court has a king, a queen, princes, dukes, barons, baronets etc, So here there are many factors to consider in making a choice. For most of us range is the king. When the public is asked why they are not interested in buying BEV the first reason they give is range anxiety and charging inconvenience which if you can separate it from range certainly isn't orthogonal. If your point is that there are other factors that is certainly true. To put it in statistical terms the biggest principle component contains a lot of range. Why don't I go for the Roadster with it's 600 mi range? Too expensive and too long to wait. Do I fantasize about what it would be like to have 600 mi range? Yes, I do.

I think the range thing is going to level off at about 400 miles. That's more than my Lexus. I think 400 is going to prove to be enough if the charging infrastructure gets to the point where it can support it.
 
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ajdelange

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I did not see before that the different Rivian batteries would charge at different speeds. I only had Bolt before and they only had one size battery offer and so no choices. Does Teslas and others with different sizes charge at different speeds?
I expect so but it wouldn't make much difference as the span of battery sizes isn't so great in the current portfolio as it will be when the CT is added or as it is with the Rivians. It's really common sense. If you have a battery that can be safely charged at 10 A and you put it in parallel with another identical battery you would want to charge the pair at 20 A to get the combination charged in the same time.
 

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I think there is a nuance here that is often missed. All three flavors of the truck will consume about the same number of Wh/mi. When towing any differences will tend to be swamped by the trailer's requirement. You must, along the way, replace the same number of miles you took from the battery whichever model you drive and as the consumption per mile is essentially the same independent of battery size you must take on approximately the same number of kWh. It's obvious that if the battery is small it takes more stops than if it is large but what is not so obvious is that a larger battery is charged faster (at some multiple of C, its capacity) so that less time is required to load X kW into a large battery than a small one. This, of course, assumes that the available chargers have sufficient capacity
Yes, that’s my learning from researching drives. With the 135 pack, we would be close to using 90%+ between chargers, so slower refill vs the 180 pack. So as of now I’m sticking with the 180.
 

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The big battery in the CT TriMotor is not there to give the CT 500 mile range. It is in there to support towing. But when you are not towing it is still there and as a consequence of its size the unburdened truck will go 500 miles. This is sort of frosting on the cake and great for Telsa's "marketing".
Exactly. My towing days are numbers, but I want the range. You know my position. I want to drive 2-or 2-1/2 hours each way and get back without charging. 500+ range will do that.
 

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https://electrek.co/2021/06/06/elon-musk-tesla-canceling-model-s-plaid-need-400-mile-range/
“What we are seeing is that once you have a range above 400 miles, more range doesn’t really matter. There are essentially zero trips above 400 miles where the driver doesn’t need to stop for restroom, food, coffee, etc. anyway.”
But sure, '"Range is king". How do you people come to terms with your position when even Elon says there's a limit to the usefulness of pack size?
 

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CommodoreAmiga

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intimidator

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I’ve been struggling to decide whether a 300+ mile range is enough, or if I really need to spend the extra $10k on the Max Pack. I started my EV journey with a VW e-Golf that had a 125 mile range. Then I recently bought a Chevy Bolt that over doubled that range to 259 miles. After a month in the Bolt, I’m finding that I haven’t found any driving situation leaving me wanting more range.
But part of me says the 400+ mile range of the Max Pack will help “future proof” the R1T I have a deposit on. As the battery degrades over time, it would still have enough range to do anything I may ask of it. My goal is to have the R1T as my forever vehicle. If I get the 300 mi pack, perhaps the cost of replacement will be inexpensive enough down the road that spending an extra $10k now doesn’t make sense.
Any thoughts from the collective to help with my decision?
Yes you need it. You want it.
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