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crashmtb

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And this ignores their installation costs and the costs for them to by electricity assuming your local area had demand pricing.

Even without demand pricing, do some back math to figure out how long a station would take to make up the installation costs for a large DC fast charging station. It's a hell of a long time at a profit of $0.30/kwh.
Most places around here charge $0.3/minute on average. The rates to buy power are quite low
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SeaGeo

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Most places around here charge $0.3/minute on average. The rates to buy power are quite low
Have you done the math on the demand charges listed in there?

Edit: my math could be wrong, but if a typical EA station was used up optimally just once in a billing cycle, the demand charge, even for your essentially free electricity, would be like $7,000 per month (?).
 
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Tim-in-CA

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Price gouging is pretty strong language. They are a business and do need to be able to make a profit. I can give you an example here in Southern CA (Orange County) for EA, non-member price is .43 a KW and member price is .31 per KW.

Compared to SCE residential rates for the TOU 4-9 rate plan

winter rates
8am to 4pm .29
4pm to 9pm .43
9pm to 8am .32

summer rates week days
8am to 4pm .30
4pm to 9pm .49
9pm to 8am .30

summer rates weekends
8am to 4pm .30
4pm to 9pm .40
9pm to 8am .30

There are other ares where rates are cheaper but the above rates are why I installed Solar at this house.
Yup, SCE rates are robbery! I have solar as well, and wish I was “allowed” to get a larger system. But SCE restricts system sizing based on prior usage, not what you will use in the future.
 

bsaik

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I've read that if you have to pay to charge your electric vehicle, at a station, you probably won't be saving any money verse gas.

Also, I do not know if the electric price at the stations is a steady rate, or fluctuates with pricing (like Uber is more expensive during certain times of the day/surge pricing).
Usually the price varies by time of day just as it does at home for most people.
 

Forager

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The engineer in me did this math long ago…

Using the EPA ratings for highway (52 kWH/100mi) and charging at $.31/kWH, equates to paying $4.06/gallon in an SUV that gets 25 mpg highway.

I use 25 mpg because that’s as good as one will reasonably get from a full-size 3-row SUV these days. Considering premium is hovering around $3.90-4.10 right now, I don’t expect to save anything on road trips. My home charging rates are $.13/kWH, so over a year I expect to save about $1200 by driving the R1S. Certainly a handy savings, but a far cry from the more efficient (and smaller) vehicles offered by other manufacturers.

Like it or not, we will be driving the electron guzzlers of the EV movement. A bit ironic given the climate-focused branding, but that’s where we are. At least the Hummer EV will make us look a bit more responsible.
 

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Boudro

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Crash,

I'm an old dog and didn't get your Letterkenny reference. Subsequent research indicates I now have more bingeable viewing ahead. Bring on the snow!!!
MV5BMDFjYTU5YjUtZDE5YS00NWZhLWE3ZWMtNDQ3NTkwYTk4MGZlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMzYxMDk5ODA_._V1_.0.jpg
You are in for wild ride. Letterkenny is F hilarious. My wife hates it and me and all my guy friends cant get enough. Pitter patter.
 

DuckTruck

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You are in for wild ride. Letterkenny is F hilarious. My wife hates it and me and all my guy friends cant get enough. Pitter patter.
Boudro,

First of all, I think you mean "B hilarious". Now I'm really looking forward to binge watching it.

Thanks for the extra enticement! ??
 

Billyk24

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Not only is EA charging fairly expensive, but I'll tell you right now that by the time we get in our Rivians the EA infrastructure will be staggeringly overtaxed by EVs. The price is only going to go up, EA has cornered the market on fast charging.

There are usually only 1 or 2 working 350kw chargers at any EA location and most people stop at them for 30-40 minutes. I already feel lucky when one is available when I show up and I fully expect the number of non-tesla, fast charging capable EVs on the road to increase by 3x to 4x this year, if not more.

If you hook up to a 150kw charger, you're going to be there for quite a while. Think an hour and a half or more for 80% charge. TBC you won't see 150kw rates on a 150kw charger, it usually averages out to around 80kw or less.

If Rivian can get this network up and running it would be huge. Charging at Electrify America is going to be a bad proposition by the time most have their Rivian; cost aside stops will just take a very long time.
What source should you have that shows an EA 150kW charger will only provide 80kW average? Has EA cornered the CCS market and what data are you using for such a statement?
 

Billyk24

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The engineer in me did this math long ago…

Using the EPA ratings for highway (52 kWH/100mi) and charging at $.31/kWH, equates to paying $4.06/gallon in an SUV that gets 25 mpg highway.

I use 25 mpg because that’s as good as one will reasonably get from a full-size 3-row SUV these days. Considering premium is hovering around $3.90-4.10 right now, I don’t expect to save anything on road trips. My home charging rates are $.13/kWH, so over a year I expect to save about $1200 by driving the R1S. Certainly a handy savings, but a far cry from the more efficient (and smaller) vehicles offered by other manufacturers.

Like it or not, we will be driving the electron guzzlers of the EV movement. A bit ironic given the climate-focused branding, but that’s where we are. At least the Hummer EV will make us look a bit more responsible.
The Toyota Highlander Hybrid gets in the mid 30s for mpg. One can adjust your figures for the Highlander Hybrid.
 

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SANZC02

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Yup, SCE rates are robbery! I have solar as well, and wish I was “allowed” to get a larger system. But SCE restricts system sizing based on prior usage, not what you will use in the future.
Yes, that was what my installer said as well but I asked him to double my annual usage and it went through (just between you and me ?).

I could not justify the cost at my regular usage. I started charging the Tesla more at the house so I show more usage until the Rivian is delivered.
 

Forager

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The Toyota Highlander Hybrid gets in the mid 30s for mpg. One can adjust your figures for the Highlander Hybrid.
Had to look for myself, the Highlander Hybrid even in AWD form is quoted at 35 mpg highway. So for the R1S to be cheaper to operate on the highway than a Highlander Hybrid, gasoline would need to cost > $5.64. And I’m assuming the Toyota runs on regular.

One might argue the R1S competes more readily with the Land Cruiser, which gets 17mpg highway —but that hurts the argument so we won’t go there ?
 

SoCal Rob

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Our LR3 gets 18 MPG if we’re lucky and it requires premium unleaded. At California gas prices the R1S should be a friggin’ economy car for us. We’ll also get savings from eliminating oil changes. Of course that’s just running costs and there’s also the $80K price to factor in. ?
 

crashmtb

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Have you done the math on the demand charges listed in there?

Edit: my math could be wrong, but if a typical EA station was used up optimally just once in a billing cycle, the demand charge, even for your essentially free electricity, would be like $7,000 per month (?).
i didn’t do the math, as I was anticipating an engineer would do it for me ???
 

SeaGeo

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i didn’t do the math, as I was anticipating an engineer would do it for me ???
That hurts dude. Really cutting deep there.
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