My day-two review of the Comma 3X Self Driving Camera for Gen1 R1- Promising, but not ready for laymen.

[MrMusAddict]

Prospective Comma customer w/ a 2022 R1T here, I'm an early adopter and don't mind the tweaking to come yet, but I don't want to buy until I know speed control (longitudinal?) isn't going to be an issue w/ compromises like no steering wheel button function or something, whatever that meant. I've been trying to put together what comes with the kit and what it is capable of. If I'm ordering today, do I need to buy anything other than the "Rivian A" harness? What is this longitudinal upgrade kit I see from xnor.shop? Is that necessary? If so, will it be offered from Comma directly?
I wish there was a table of combinations of sw/hw combinations against functionality somewhere so I could make better sense of what I need to buy and what I need to install to get functionality that meets my desired starting point on this endeavor.
Thanks much for any help.

-Jeremy

As of today, here's my understanding:

	Only Harness (either Comma or Lucas')	Harness + Long Upgrade
OpenPilot (Default)	Functionality I described in my first message	No Added Benefit
SunnyPilot	Same features as OpenPilot ↑, plus: • Speed control on 3X • Speed sign recognition • MADS • Vision-assisted follow behavior	Same features as OpenPilot ↑, plus: • Speed control on steering wheel • Speed sign recognition • MADS • Vision-assisted follow behavior • Blind spot monitoring • More Soon™

• Speed control without the Long upgrade is still very usable in my opinion. I've hardly needed to interact with the buttons on the 3X. Observations:
  • If I want to increase the max speed, I can just press the accelerator until I hit it. It'll then hold that as the max speed.
  • If I want to decrease the max speed, I can disengage and 1PD, then reengage.
• Speed sign recognition can set speeds automatically, at tolerances of +0%, 5%, 10%, and 15%.
• MADS means 3X can steer while you manually 1PD. Great around town, or on roads with advisory speed limits.
• Vision assisted follow means that the radar is supplemented by the 3X, which improves acceleration/follow/deceleration at higher speeds. For example if a car faster than you is passing you, you can merge immediately after they pass you and SunnyPilot will actually accelerate because it knows it's safe to do so (whereas Rivian ACC would slam on the brakes because the radar thinks you're too close).
• Blind-spot monitoring sounds like it can prevent a merge if it detects an obstacle in the lane you're trying to merge to.
• "More soon", the Long upgrade adds signals to the 3X that I don't think we've tapped into yet, but they're technically available. Ultimately, the Long upgrade still sounds like it's in the discovery phase for features, but very promising.

There's probably more I missed.

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[gerrylum]

Great list! I'll just add that the upgrade kit also adds scroll wheel functionality to select driving personality on Sunnypilot.

 

[Jerm]

Thanks @MrMusAddict for the excellent breakdown-
I read every page leading up to this and still must've managed to miss what "1PD" means.
I think that gets to the heart of what I was wondering, which was whether or not the Longitudinal Upgrade kit was just a temporary functional boost that the harness alone would eventually be capable of through sw updates, or whether that wiring was critical for features showing up down the road, or even today. Sounds like the latter is true, and I need it. Still not sure why Comma doesn't just sell it with the harness in that case- perhaps they will?
But for now, even the Long Upg kit has two variants, and I'm not sure which I need.
https://xnor.shop/products/rivian-r1s-r1t-gen1-longitudinal-upgrade-kit

 

[gerrylum]

Thanks @MrMusAddict for the excellent breakdown-
I read every page leading up to this and still must've managed to miss what "1PD" means.
I think that gets to the heart of what I was wondering, which was whether or not the Longitudinal Upgrade kit was just a temporary functional boost that the harness alone would eventually be capable of through sw updates, or whether that wiring was critical for features showing up down the road, or even today. Sounds like the latter is true, and I need it. Still not sure why Comma doesn't just sell it with the harness in that case- perhaps they will?
But for now, even the Long Upg kit has two variants, and I'm not sure which I need.
https://xnor.shop/products/rivian-r1s-r1t-gen1-longitudinal-upgrade-kit

Comma isn't in the business of creating upgrades like that. They want to create the easiest, most cost effective way to get people onto the platform. Adding a product like the upgrade kit to the mix makes their product strategy unnecessarily complex. Better idea to leave that kind of thing up to the developer community.

As to your second question, the variant you need depends on which harness you get. The one from Lukas, which has the secondary port already built in, or Comma's harness, which needs an additional piece which adds the secondary port for the upgrade to attach to.

 

[Jerm]

@gerrylum - thanks, this is all very helpful. So I buy a Comma 3x, then the hardware needed for speed/longitudinal control w/o compromise to steering wheel, plus BSM is either:

1. https://comma.ai/shop/car-harness?harness=Rivian%20R1T%202022-24
   +
   https://xnor.shop/products/rivian-r1s-r1t-gen1-longitudinal-upgrade-kit?variant=53071588098371
   
   OR
   
   
2. https://xnor.shop/products/rivian-generation-1-harness-kit?variant=52599833493827
   +
   https://xnor.shop/products/rivian-r1s-r1t-gen1-longitudinal-upgrade-kit?variant=53071588131139

#1 is about $493 and #2 is about $480. (USD), so effectively the same to me. I don't know if one is more polished as a solution for any reason, but I guess I'm inclined to get #2 if all else is equal. Let me know if there's a preference I should have for a reason I'm not considering.
Again, gratitude.

 

[gerrylum]

Yep, that all looks accurate! I would direct you to #2 as well if only to help support Lukas and his development efforts on the Rivian.

 

[MrMusAddict]

Also @Jerm, 1PD = 1-pedal driving.

So, pressing the brake disengages SunnyPilot, but if you just 1-pedal drive, then you effectively have braking while the 3X steers for you.

 

[DayTripping]

You want the longitudinal upgrade if you want to use your steering wheel buttons to control the speed. Otherwise you have to do it from the device itself which isn't that hard. You set your speed like you normally would and Comma takes over. Comma will still control the speed when you are on the right branch of code.

If you get the longitudinal control box, you'll need another USB cable to run from it to the Comma. I'd highly suggest something like a mag mount for the device so you can easily take it down. I wouldn't leave it in the sun all the time.

 

[DayTripping]

Also @Jerm, 1PD = 1-pedal driving.

So, pressing the brake disengages SunnyPilot, but if you just 1-pedal drive, then you effectively have braking while the 3X steers for you.

Yes. You can then click down on the stalk like you would set the cruise control to then have it control speed as well.

 

[ScoobieSteve]

The fact that this system allows this is frightening to me. If you are required to supervise an ADAS system any input by you should override the system. If I have to make a steering or braking correction the system has failed and as such it should only resume control under my deliberate command. Any other way is incredibly dangerous for a level 2/3 system.

I understand your impression as I had the same concerns....having used some Tesla FSD (which at the time was not good) and Rivian ADAS. This system does not "fight" you. The minute you provide inputs, it feels disengaged. At times, I have wondered if it remained engaged until I let go while hovering the wheel. I love it to avoid pot holes, bikers, walkers, semi trucks, traffic, ....etc. You would not understand unless you experience it, and I really hope you get the opportunity to. I honestly would take this system over any other ADAS system I have ever tried, including a test drive of the Gen 2's. I am baffled that other systems cannot mimick and do this!? I for one am a convert, even with the current development. I like it so much that I decided not to trade for a Gen 2 until/unless i could port this over. It is clear that when you provide open source that things get accomplished, and this is the only focus verses all of the other million things car companies try to get in line. I appreciate your perspective as it helps me to realize how far I have transitioned from my initial thoughts.

 

[LL75]

Finally decided to join the Comma family and put the order in yesterday. Hope to receive it soon and testing it out. I'm going with the BearTech magnetic mounts and will be using it between both of my 2024 Dual R1T (mostly in this car), and 2023 Quad R1s.

will there be any issues switching between cars with one unit of Comma?

 

[gerrylum]

Finally decided to join the Comma family and put the order in yesterday. Hope to receive it soon and testing it out. I'm going with the BearTech magnetic mounts and will be using it between both of my 2024 Dual R1T (mostly in this car), and 2023 Quad R1s.

will there be any issues switching between cars with one unit of Comma?

No issues as long as you get the necessary harnesses and cables for both vehicles!

 

[DayTripping]

You might need to recalibrate it when you switch though. Might be more likely to need that if you don't place the mounts in the same exact place on the windshield. If they have different tires that may impact how it works as well.

 

[JSports]

I have about 800 miles on the comma and the one thing I wish it did differently was lift off the gas to slow down rather than apply the brakes to slow down. I hadn't used my brake pads at all until I got the comma.

 

[godfodder0901]

I have about 800 miles on the comma and the one thing I wish it did differently was lift off the gas to slow down rather than apply the brakes to slow down. I hadn't used my brake pads at all until I got the comma.

It doesn't use the brakes any more or different than the stock ACC or HA. All the Comma does is command an acceleration or deceleration value. And if you've ever used ACC or HA, then you have also absolutely used the brakes.

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