Ford Says Large Electric Trucks And SUVs Have 'Unresolvable' Problems

[Zoidz]

InsideEVs

Ford CEO Jim Farley did not mince words while explaining some of the drawbacks of fully electric large SUVs and trucks.

During Ford’s Q4 2024 earnings call on Wednesday, the automaker shared its electrification roadmap, reiterating that it would focus on small and medium-sized EVs that are more economically viable instead of going all guns blazing with battery-electric models across all segments.

“For larger retail, electric utilities, the economics are unresolvable,” Farley said. “These customers have very demanding use cases for an electric vehicle. They tow, they go off-road, they take long road trips. These vehicles have worse aerodynamics and they're very heavy, which means very large and expensive batteries.”

“Retail customers have shown that they will not pay any premium for these large EVs, making them a really tough business case,” Farley said.

Profitability for the large family haulers will instead come from “PHEVs, hybrids and EREVs” that on “one tank of gas can get over 700 miles of range, but still drive most miles electric,” he added.

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[Donald Stanfield]

Because their offerings suck, not enough people will buy the electric equivalent of an ICE truck because the ICE is cheaper. You have to make an electric truck like the Rivian, unlike anything ICE offers. Distance hauling will not compete, and EREVs are a stepping stone to pure EVs. I bet many people who buy one transition to a full EV because the hassle of dealing with the gas isn't worth it for the time they use it, or they never charge it at all and just run it on gas.

 

[DuoRivians]

Ford isn’t going to make it

 

[Davethadog]

He’s not wrong. I’m pretty excited about the ramcharger and will happily dump the Rivian for one and potentially a heavy duty equivalent some day. It’ll be a long time before I end up back with a full size EV only truck again.

 

[Redmond Chad]

I believe Farley is correct that having the most range in the least efficient vehicles is a serious challenge.

But I also think Ford waited too long to secure battery supply, and now what they have is too little and too expensive - this may be more of a challenge for Ford than other companies that started preparing sooner. So he is trying to make it sound like it's not Ford's fault. Which is pretty much what most CEOs do on earnings calls.

 

[JeromePowell]

Ford isn’t going to make it

Is Rivian going to make it?

 

[George Kaplan]

He’s not wrong. I’m pretty excited about the ramcharger and will happily dump the Rivian for one and potentially a heavy duty equivalent some day. It’ll be a long time before I end up back with a full size EV only truck again.

No, he’s not wrong.

There is a firm cap on the market for $70K to $100K pickups. This is true of R1T, LightNing, Cybertruck. The size of the battery needed to provide the range a buyer expects/requires of a truck is the largest line item in the build.

The sensible area of growth will be in Maverick and Ranger sized trucks, not F-150. Ford put their mark using their signature product, and that was a ballsy move. But as Farley said, the design factor with poor aerodynamics weighs against the efficiency needed to maximize range/reduce battery size and cost.

Besides which, the company can do more on a global scale with a Maverick EV than F-150, which is too large and costly in many European settings. It’s for that reason Ford is designing smaller and more affordable EVs for 2026.

 

[solaskaze]

InsideEVs

Ford CEO Jim Farley did not mince words while explaining some of the drawbacks of fully electric large SUVs and trucks.

During Ford’s Q4 2024 earnings call on Wednesday, the automaker shared its electrification roadmap, reiterating that it would focus on small and medium-sized EVs that are more economically viable instead of going all guns blazing with battery-electric models across all segments.

“For larger retail, electric utilities, the economics are unresolvable,” Farley said. “These customers have very demanding use cases for an electric vehicle. They tow, they go off-road, they take long road trips. These vehicles have worse aerodynamics and they're very heavy, which means very large and expensive batteries.”

“Retail customers have shown that they will not pay any premium for these large EVs, making them a really tough business case,” Farley said.

Profitability for the large family haulers will instead come from “PHEVs, hybrids and EREVs” that on “one tank of gas can get over 700 miles of range, but still drive most miles electric,” he added.

"For larger retail, electric utilities, the economics are unresolvable" is quite a narrow view. Notice that Ford doesn't say it's too early. They don't say EVs will grow, but Ford doesn't think so yet. They don't say research (what research?) looks promising. It's simply a wave a white flag, which I suppose makes sense for someone who has the largest volume ICE pickup.... so, ICE.
Here's just one sample he could of cited:

• The energy density of lithium-ion batteries is expected to continue to increase. For example, RMI forecasts that in 2030, top-tier density will be between 600 and 800 Wh/kg.

My favorite quote of them all:
"I am not surprised by the high number of reservations [for model 3]," Marchionne [FIAT CEO] told journalists following a shareholder meeting in Amsterdam, saying he had great respect for Tesla chief executive Elon Musk. "But then the hard reality comes in ... making cars, selling them and making money doing so...If he can show me that it can be done, I will do it as well, copy him, add Italian style to it and put it on the market within 12 months," he added. Folks: that was in 2016.

 

[fxstein]

The company that fails to deliver declares it can’t be done.

That is implicitly true.

Otherwise they would be successful.

Large electric vehicles are hard to make work on multiple dimensions.

it seems it’s too hard for some. Sorry but Ford does not yet have what it takes to succeed in this space.

In all fairness it’s hard for Rivian as well.

For now I found my sweet spot with my Gen 1.5 R1T Quad Adventure. Love that truck and have had very few issues so far. Would not trade it for any Gen 2 for now. In 2 years maybe, we shall see.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Ford's truck isn't competitive now that GM has hit their strides with theirs. If you're worried about range, it's obvious where you should spend your money to me.

 

[COdogman]

He’s not wrong about the problems, but he Is wrong to make it sound as if they can’t be solved. Also…the problems he is describing were known long before they even attempted to make their first full size EV. He acts like it’s a surprise??‍

This sounds like excuse making because Ford isn’t up to the challenge.

 

[Golfer04]

IMO, the biggest technology challenge to be fixed is dcfc speed. This is after the relatively easy part of dramatically increasing its availability. Cheaper, easily replaceable batteries might be the answer, but essentially an hr to recharge my R1T on a road trip is too long for mass adoption.

 

[Budman]

I wish he had told me 3 years ago that it was impractical to take roadtrips in an EV pickup. If I had known, I would not have been under the mistaken impression that I was having the time of my life criss-crossing the country in my R1T.

 

[Erik+]

He’s not wrong about the problems, but he Is wrong to make it sound as if they can’t be solved. Also…the problems he is describing were known long before they even attempted to make their first full size EV. He acts like it’s a surprise??‍

This sounds like excuse making because Ford isn’t up to the challenge.

Ford reported something around 35k in losses per EV sold. I think his point is that they are not interested in working to try to solve the problems while continuing to lose money in the effort, not that they are unsolvable problems, just not ones worth continuing on given current losses, especially when they have other sectors they can focus on for profits. Basically throwing in the towel given their view of the market demand for large EVs, that in their case, look exactly the same as their combustion driven counterparts.

 

[Rivdog]

Perhaps Farley is underestimating the damage his dealer network caused. Sure, people don’t want to buy a $100,000 F-150. Maybe they would have been interested at a $50,000-$70,000 F-150, but his shady dealers wouldn’t dare sell one at MSRP. I suspect it had as much to do with people not being willing to pay a minimum $10,000+ ADM as anything else.

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