Towing a 17ft/2,200lb RV trailer with a Tesla Model X; reasons why an R1S could be a better tow vehicle

[EVtowing]

@SwampNut wrote: “They haven't even hinted at that, at all. Much less promised it.”


On the Rivian website at https://rivian.com/r1s in the “Autonomy” section it states:

Lane Change on Command coming summer 2024
Enhanced Highway Assist expected late 2024
Driving Comfort Assist expected 2025

The short descriptions provided for each of those features indicates that, as additions to what is currently available in the Rivian Autonomous Platform (also described on that page), Rivian Autonomy Platform + will then be very similar to the current capabilities of Tesla’s Enhanced Auto Pilot (EAP) option, which is what I specifically referenced in my post.

EAP is an option that Tesla no longer sells but that I have on both my cars, and use constantly on freeways and highways with no cross traffic, which is what it is designed for. It is not the same as FSD (Full Self Driving, for use on all roads) which is what Tesla has been selling for the past few years but that in fact is definitely not “full” (i.e. Level 4 or 5) and requires constant driver attention while in use. I’ve driven a friends Tesla using FSD V12.4 and it was amazing but not Level 4/5 (now there is a newer release, V12.5, still not fully autonomous).

I suspect you were conflating FSD with EAP, but my post did not mention FSD. I’m not criticizing you for that; its easy to do for people who aren’t familiar with the various versions of Auto Pilot that Tesla has offered over the past 8 years.

I realize that Rivian has not stated that they plan to offer something similar to FSD in the future.

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[EVtowing]

Had a demo drive in an R1S Dual Motor (Gen1), my first time in a Rivian so first time driving one. Very impressed! Beautiful fit and finish, very smooth ride, good handling with an amazingly tight turning radius, comfortable seats, super useful 360 top down display when parking, plenty of power of course, and quickly got used to and appreciated the max regen setting which is more effective than even the Tesla Model 3.

Also first time seeing the tow hitch area up close, much better design than the Model X.

Still not ready to switch yet. I want to have adaptive cruise control available while towing (like Tesla and Ford) and want to see how good the upcoming auto pilot-like features will be; Lane Change on Command and Enhanced Highway Assist. It is unclear at this point just how much the future Driving Comfort Assist feature is going to add.

Would like to have an integrated NACS port (I know that is coming later next year) but could live with an adaptor.

The R1S is clearly a great EV.

Also did the VR tour of the R2, which was a fascinating experience; not as high-res as I hoped but still useful for getting a sense of the proportions of the vehicle, inside and out.

 

[HaveBlue]

Other thing to note is that only Teslas can charge on V1, V2 and all V3/V3.5 stations. Non Teslas/ Rivian get the V3 and V4 stations indicated in the nav only. It's still plenty. When you are ready for a new vehicle, I think you'll enjoy the rivian. DC charging in general is good on them.

 

[Zoomit]

DC charging in general is good on them.

Compared to what or according to what metric? I thought the R1 DCFC charge rates and thermal derating were mediocre at best.

 

[HaveBlue]

Compared to what or according to what metric? I thought the R1 DCFC charge rates and thermal derating were mediocre at best.

Well the 900v cyber truck was just tested on a EU charger. Hit 400kw and then derated massively. 10-80% was the same time as the 200kw rivian so I'd say we're holding our own. It's a big battery and is going to take longer than a passenger car.

 

[EVtowing]

Well the 900v cyber truck was just tested on a EU charger. Hit 400kw and then derated massively.

The Cybertruck Battery is 800V.

I was not aware that it could start charging at 400kW (your source is?) and in any case even 350kW capable chargers are not exactly widespread, though of course they do exist. I have seen reports of 255kW as the max charge rate.

 

[Zoomit]

The Cybertruck is known to have poor DC fast charging rates. The C-rates for the Gen 1 & 2 4680 cells are similar and significantly inferior to other Teslas. But I suppose the CT does set an EV truck standard due to it's build quantities.

Against the CT, the R1 does similar in optimal charging conditions. However, the R1 pack cooling architecture is inferior which leads to thermal derating during hot or high-amperage charge sessions. Both the CT and R1 are better than the F-150 Lightning but the GM trucks (Silverado & Sierra) both have much more robust charging curves and capabilities.

Those trucks are a great counter examples of the "it's a big battery so it must take longer to charge" idea. Given an appropriately-capable (1000V/500A) charging station, they will charge in less time than many cars.

Here's the 400kW CT charging example: X post link

The most agressive charging seen on a Cybertruck is ~324kW at 19%, X post link, which is about 10% faster at the same SOC than the "400kW" EU session.

Here's some criticism of R1 Max fast charging. Both of these videos are cued up to the specific comments:

 

[EVtowing]

Here's the 400kW CT charging example: X post link

Thanks. So it hits 404kW and in a matter of seconds drops down to about 350kW and then continues to rapidly taper such that in about 5(?) minutes it is at 250kW.

I’m a bit surprised that Rivian has not yet improved it’s pack cooling capability.

 

[Zoomit]

Thanks. So it hits 404kW and in a matter of seconds drops down to about 350kW and then continues to rapidly taper such that in about 5(?) minutes it is at 250kW.

I’m a bit surprised that Rivian has not yet improved it’s pack cooling capability.

Yes, the current CT charging curve decreases below 250kW at about 25% SOC and continues it's taper. The charge curve below 250kW is only slightly more than what the Model 3 LR pack demonstrated in 2019. It's pretty sad actually, especially when you consider the CT pack is more than 50% larger.

I am also disappointed that Rivian took the opportunity to simplify the R1 packs, but didn't address their thermal performance. I don't expect them to revise the packs again anytime soon.

My remaining hope is that they move the charging port to the other side when they convert to NACS next year, but that's just wishful thinking. It won't happen. Nor will they add TT-30 or 14-50 recepticals to the bed.

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